Are you exhausted and burnt out from your current job that you can ‘t even think about what it is going to take to start changing careers?

It's time to re-calibrate your mindset to make that career change to something you enjoy (finally!).

Two keywords: Space and Margin.

In today's episode our career coach, Lisa Lewis, drops in to share why it's important to create time and space for you to visualize and design your next career.

From there, you will be able to layout what you have in front of you to begin making those marginal decisions to get you to your next career. Don't over-think…small steps is the goal.

Listen in as Lisa also discusses some of the realistic, potential positive and negative outcomes if you decide to invite your current employer to discuss your thoughts of changing careers.

What You Will Learn About Changing Careers

  • How to get clear on what you have in front of you (financially) to build a road map to get to your next career move
  • Why taking the time to figure out what you want by creating a vision will add to your inspiration to keep you from burning out through your career change process
  • How setting strong boundaries with your current work situation is just as important in the transition process to your next career to help you get re-energized and keep you from burn-out in order to take those baby-steps in exploring your possibilities
  • How to propose your career change to your current employer

“The more that you can re-calibrate your mindset to instead of look for either/ or situations and answers, but to look for inclusive answers of. ‘Let me open up my creativity and my, sort of, radar in the world for roles where I can get more of the types of activities and the types of strengths usage and development that I love AND make enough money to be able to continue on my life at the level of happiness and the level of living that I want… I think just that mindset shift can be hugely powerful and open up all kinds of interesting possibilities that couldn’t possibly be on your radar if you think about the world in this binary, either/or, black or white kind of way.”

Lisa Lewis


If you want to learn more about our career coaching and other services, head on over to our career coaching page.

Transcript from Episode
Scott: Hey this is Scott Anthony Barlow. And welcome back to Happen to your career. We have a pretty pretty exciting episode for today and I have with me back on the show for time number three, believe it or not. We've only had so many guests make a third appearance and back by popular demand she's more popular than me on this podcast. And I am mostly excited about that a little bit jealous, but mostly excited. I want to welcome back to the show to talk about how to make really difficult changes – Lisa Lewis.

Scott: How are you today?

Lisa: Hey Scott and hello to the HTYC family. And also I'm definitely not more popular than you are, for the record. One of these days I'm going to get to a podcast interview you and ask you about all sorts of random questions that I'm sure everybody wants to know including bragging about your kids. So get excited.

Scott: I don't think we have enough podcasts digital recording reel for that. So like disco hours and hours and hours at least.

Lisa: Only one way to find out.

Scott: Only one way to find out. Okay we will do that episode. You and I have been talking about that for a while. Okay we'll make it happen because that's what we do around here, make stuff happen. In all seriousness you have the most downloaded episode at this point. Your first one episode 147. By the way if you haven't heard Lisa before, go back listen to Episode 147. It's a good one. It is following the breadcrumbs to your dream career. Very very awesome. And we're back. We're back for more.

Lisa: So cool.

Scott: Did you know that?

Lisa: I didn't know that. It's just you know like the reason we do what we do is to be helpful and to get people in motion so that's just super cool news. Thanks.

Scott: Yeah you're welcome. You're welcome. Drop it. Drop that good news as we're recording for pure reaction. Okay, so today our task is to help people understand why these difficult career changes are so difficult. Well maybe not exactly like that because we don't want to show the water while they're drowning. But instead we want to help people understand the reasons behind why difficult career changes can be so difficult. And once you understand that, some easier ways to go about it and how to actually make the change. So that's a lot to ask. I mean we could spend what 17 or 19 or 147 hours on just those topics. But I want to pick out some of the most or the biggest reasons why career change is difficult in the first place so that we can help people understand what's going on behind the scenes, the stuff that they don't see those forces that are at work if you will and then help them understand what to actually do about it. Sound good?

Lisa: Yeah it's a big agenda but I'm excited.

Scott: Okay. All right. We're going to do this. Let's take a couple examples here because we get so many people and in fact, oh my goodness, we've had like 2500 people added to the Happen To Your Career family in the last 10 days.

Lisa: That's amazing!

Scott: Nutty!

Lisa: Hi new family members. That's so cool.

Scott: Yeah that blows me away. I'm super super excited about that we've got lots of new people that need our help. So no pressure or anything right? Let's take a couple of examples. I've been emailing and talking to some of these people and I want to make this really really relevant here. So one of the biggest things that I've seen again and again is people that are really really struggling to figure out how to go from one type of career to something completely different when they don't necessarily know exactly what that looks like, they don't necessarily know exactly what they want to be doing. They've got some ideas of what's not so exciting about their current situation, right? But they're not necessarily sure what they would like to do and how they want to spend their time differently. Have you heard of that problem before Lisa?

Lisa: Yeah. Oh all the time and I mean I feel like I was facing that same problem when I was thinking about my own career change. I knew I didn't want to do digital marketing and I said I could go become a mental health therapist. And the first thought that sort of comes to mind whenever I hear about this sort of hard left career pivot with folks that I'm working with. The first question that always pops up for me is, how much do you know about what that job and what that world is like on a day to day basis. Because the idea of getting to do the work versus the type of tasks and the type of skills that a successful execution will then make you really successful in that role. Those can be really different.

Scott: Really. And that's a great point too because when you, I don't know, mental health therapist that is probably more similar from one organization to another than some other types of jobs even. But still, any any job that you take like if you are a digital marketer let's say you know, that looks completely different. You might be doing coordination, I don't know, put up blog posts on one company. And then if you're in a completely different company it might be still even more difficult. So it compounds knowing what is going to be like with this dynamic sort of moving target type thing that happens when you go from company to company when it's based just on that job title in the first place right?


Lisa: Oh yeah. Yeah. Falling in love with a title I think can be a risk factor. And if you're getting really excited or enthused about a specific title or a specific sort of new career that maybe you know somebody who does but you haven't necessarily gotten any hands-on experience doing yourself through volunteering, internships, apprenticing, shadowing, anything like that. My first thought is it's going to make your transition to that career so much easier. You could put some sort of relevant experience on your resume. So why not take a peek for opportunities to give it a test drive and see what it's like to be in that world. You know whether you get your hands on or not because that will give you a much much better sense of you know since there is no such thing as a completely perfect unicorns and rainbows job, every single hour of every single day. It will give you a sense of what some of the ups and downs are and see if it's the type of thing where you're not going to mind the downs because the ups are so good and they're so aligned with who you are and what your gifts are.

Scott: I am stuck on unicorns and rainbows. Check! We talked about unicorns and rainbows on the podcast. Now I can't do it later. We've already checked that off. Disappointing. Steal my thunder. I see how you are. This is why you have the most downloaded episode.

Lisa: You know, I think though that like the dream of having the unicorns and rainbows career can be really really seductive. Like a really intriguing and enchanting and can almost pull you away from recognizing or acknowledging any of the other good things or any of the other things that you like in your current job. Which then could make it even harder to know if you're jumping when you're making a career change into something else that's going to fit you. Or if you have a sort of walk so far away from the sort of things that you like and that you're good at in past roles that you're almost losing the sense of self in pursuit of the rainbow unicorn sort of utopian dream.

Scott: So that's really interesting. And I have seen that happen again and again and again. I was just on a call the other day with a somebody who pretty badly needed our help. And she was saying the exact same thing. She's talking about her current role and you know she gets fairly well-paid and she also enjoys a lot of aspects of it. But really had this kind of overwhelming feeling that she wanted something more and there could be something much much much better for her out there. So sort of these nagging forces from both sides. And she was trying to decide, “hey do I just have grass is greener syndrome or whatever you want to call that right?” Unicorns and rainbows syndrome, something like that, we're going to make up a term. But I think that that's real because people have this sort of ‘Should I Stay or Should I go' conundrum. And is it going to be any better if I go. So how do you think about that?

Lisa: Well the way I start thinking about that is trying to ground yourself in what you know to be true about yourself. So even backing up to the job that you're currently in or the job you're most recently in. There was a reason that was appealing and interesting to you. So I would say dig back into what the things were about the job that initially spoke to you. Was it opportunities to get to manage and grow a team? Was it that you were going to have a lot of autonomy, that you were going to have a lot of access to the numbers and the data? And think about those different data points, those different sort of hints at what speaks to you and to who you at least were at that point. And you can do this sort of realignment re-evaluation based on who you are now, the skills and strengths that you have, and your values and the way you want to live your life. Do those things still appeal to you? And if so let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater and abandon everything and just make a jump into another role because you're currently overworked, underpaid, too stressed, burnt out. Whatever it is. But tap back into the things that sustain you and fulfill you and fill you up. And see how you can sniff around to find those in a next opportunity. And I want to say something because you just mentioned, somebody can be in a fairly high paying position and feel a lot of stress and strain and pain there. And I think that the golden handcuffs syndrome or the golden handcuffs mindset can make career change really really hard for folks especially for top performers because there is this secret little pervasive lie that we tell ourselves which is that if I make a career change there's no way I will ever make this much money ever again. Therefore I have to stay in this role even though I hate it because I have a standard of living that requires as much money and I think I mean I'm sure you can speak to this too. But what I've found is that the more that you can recalibrate your mindset to instead of look for either or situations and answers but to look for inclusive answers, let me open up my creativity and my sort of radar in the world for roles where I can get more of the types of activities and the types of strength usage and development that I love. And make enough money to be able to continue on my life at the level of happiness and the level of living that I want. I think just that mindset shift can be hugely powerful and open up all kinds of interesting possibilities that couldn't possibly be on your radar. If you think about the world in this binary either or black or white kind of way.

Scott: That's really interesting. And I absolutely love that line of thinking. Actually even if you go way back to when we had Dan Miller on the podcast, it's been quite awhile has been like three plus years at this point, but he talked about and thinking as opposed to or thinking ‘I don't like a or b decisions, a or b decisions suck. I like a and b decisions. Those are so much better.' How do we do that? And I think that's a lot of what you're talking about. But one of the things that I absolutely love from that is when you started thinking in that regard that line that whatever you'd like to call it as soon as you start asking the questions of how do I get both. How could we make that happen? Ding ding ding ding. Then you can actually start working backwards and you can start filling in steps to be able to see how can we do both or even if you're not quite that far along and say okay well what are the possibilities. How could that actually be possible? So here's a great example too. I'm not going to tell her entire situation but mention her name Jenny in our Career Change Bootcamp. Jenny was and has been for a long time in a field where she is not rewarded for some of her natural strengths and inclinations. And I'm trying to not share too much about her situation but I think she's got a really really interesting story and she's just recently made some huge headway. Anyhow. So she's very much a people person, very much a collaborator and she's in this role where it doesn't require collaboration and in fact those natural strengths have been around people and able to interact and build relationships with people. And doing so very effortlessly. They are not rewarded in the sector that she's in. They're probably even discouraged, I would probably say that. It's just they don't place value on them where she's at. And small wonder, it feels like it's a bad fit for a job, shock and surprise there right? No rainbows, no butterflies, no unicorns. Do not pass go do not like 200 dollars. So she's had a really really really difficult time seeing how this stuff could be valuable in another industry, another sector, another organization, another company, whatever it is. And that was part of her hang up for a very very very long time. And also couldn't see some of this. Even if she could get there couldn't see some of the steps in between. So really really really proud of her because just recently in order for her to be able to do some of that exploring like you're talking about and being able to begin testing, if you will, in new industries and new sectors. She went had a conversation with her her boss about transitioning out and did so in a way where it was very much a partnership and like she's not getting walked out of the building, and anything else. But she had to be able to see how she could have in and solution (as opposed or solution) long before she was able to even consider doing that and making it a realistic possibility. So paves the way.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh absolutely. And something else actually that I think is worth mentioning is you just gave an example of somebody who's thinking about a career change and who brought their boss into the conversation. Yeah. And I think if you are in a position to be able to bring your current employer into the conversation at all about a potential career change, it is definitely worth at least considering and at least exploring. And I say this because one of the biggest things that I hear from folks about a reason they can't make a career change is because they are exhausted, like burnt out feel like they're working all the time. Don't have a spare second to even think about themselves. And that is a really hard place to make any sort of change from, especially a strategic and thoughtful change. You know it's a good place to put in your two weeks notice without having anything else lined up. But like we would not encourage that for any of the HTYCers, unless your situation is really dire and that's the best thing for you to do for your mental health.

Scott: Or if you've got enough runway and built enough savings and you have created that pathway for yourself to be able to have additional options.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh yeah. Well we should talk about transition planning in a second. But what I want to say there is that if you are exhausted and burnt out with your current job, then I would so encourage you to start drawing some really strong boundaries with your work for two reasons. One because you've got to get just a little bit more margin in life to be able to make this career change exploration a priority. And to feel like you have the space to start dreaming and start creating this vision of what you could move into and get yourself just reenergized enough to take that one next baby step to explore. But the other reason is if you're feeling burnt out and in a terrible spot, even if you don't end up making a career transition for two or three or four months from this very moment, wouldn't it be nice to get yourself a little extra breathing room and a little bit extra mental health, mental piece? And just having that first conversation with your boss to say this is not working for me right now, this is not sustainable, how can we find a way to make this sustainable? And then start to crack the door open to have some other conversations, because wouldn't it be cool if you were able to get a little bit more fulfillment and excitement out of your job just by being able to have an agreement that you can limited to 40 hours a week. Or if you have a conversation with your boss to say, ‘hey I really need these boundaries' and your boss says ‘we can't really make that happen.' Then it's going to be no surprise to anybody when you say, ‘I would like to make a transition to a different department or I'm putting in my notice and going on to something else.' But you've given your boss and your employer at least the benefit of the doubt and at least one opportunity to try to make things better for you. Sometimes folks are silently suffering and silently working 60 hour-weeks that their bosses don't necessarily see or acknowledge. And if you can bring that to light with folks, you can sometimes make these quick marginal improvements that will give you so much more space and breathing room and freedom. You know even if you do ultimately end up making your career change in a month or two anyways. I think if there's any opportunity to immediately make things better on you in a mental health sense, you should definitely definitely do it.

AD plays

Scott: Okay so we're talking about what makes career change difficult in the first place. And that is absolutely one of the things. If you're exhausted, burnt out, just like you're talking about Lisa, then you're not going to, (you) called it margin and I absolutely love that you're not going to have the margin to be able to have even the space to get to know yourself enough and figure out what the next step can look like. So almost the precursor to doing any of the difficult work to understand what would be a great career change for you or to have the time and space to actually make that change. You have to create your own margin. And most people are doing exactly what you described where they're wandering around and bump into stuff just because they're so tired, so burnt out, so exhausted. And that's not obviously a good place to be. And when we're talking about really a major life change that for most people some take some place between two in six or seven nine months in some cases because that's what this is like not just making a career change. But making a career change to work that you are enjoying and is for you, then it requires getting some space and getting some margin. Okay so let me pause and say, most people are kind of afraid to have that conversation. So let's talk about that for just a second here. First of all, what are the possibilities and what that conversation can get them in terms of margin or different type of immediate quality of life? And then what are the things that people get scared about and what are the realistic potential negatives? Let's break it down to those couple of sections.

Lisa: Sure. Well especially with your background and age. I'd love to hear you fill in with your thoughts here too. But so to start with, what are some of the potential positive outcomes of having that kind of conversation? I think positive outcome number one, is that you remember that you have some power and you have some choice and at the end of the day whatever current work situation you are in you probably have at least a little bit of opportunity to make a change or an improvement or an upgrade. And you know some of the ways that that could play out is you might be able to get flexibility on the hours that you come in to the office. You know, maybe you have core hours and you only need to be in the office from 10:00 a.m. to 3 p.m. Maybe you get the opportunity to work from home and that eases some of the burden on you because your commute stuff where you've got to go pick up your kids from daycare. Maybe you get the opportunity to fully work remotely. You know you could get the chance to change responsibilities and take on something new and even be able to start testing out that career change in your current job by taking on a new cross departmental project. And you know once a company has you as an employee. Ninety nine percent of the time they don't want to lose you. They made an investment in you they think that you are smart and talented and worthwhile and it help them grow that business. But if you're seeing ways to grow the business in ways it will also grow your happiness then I think you owe it both to yourself and to the company to say ‘hey here's what I'd like to do.' And Scott I think you have a beautiful story about how you were able to do this with your your last boss. And able to show how actually working from home made you able to be more productive made you a higher output, higher caliber employee for them, but also got you some desperately needed margin and flexibility in your own life.

Scott: Oh yeah. People start from one of two places here. So you're either starting from, you already have a good relationship and they view you as a high performer and everything and that's what's going to allow you to go have that type of conversation in the first place. However on the flip side, if you are struggling and you know you suspect they know who you're struggling to then it's maybe even more important that you go and have that conversation and ask for help. So on the struggling side that conversation can be as simple as, ‘Look I have been really struggling with with these pieces of the job. I want your help to figure out how how I can do these much much much better because I'm probably doing things that are making harder and I could really use your partnership on this' and I can be as simple as that conversation. Even though I know people are scared to have that because I feel like they're admitting failure to some degree. But actually what you're doing is getting your boss' support to actually turn it into a really great situation so that then you can have an additional type of conversation later which that piece that you're referring to Lisa. I already had a great relationship with my boss and they felt really really good about me, me as an employee, they wanted to keep me. I knew all of that already. And I had intentionally built that. But I went to them and said, ‘look I am wanting to do something else and I am really excited about that but I also want to make sure that everything is really well taken care of here.' And that's what eventually led me to start this business. But even before that, I went to them and negotiated a little bit of flexibility and time. And it started out with actually just one day a week, actually that's one day every other week being able to work from home. And I just went in and presented the business case for it. And when I say a business case I'm just talking about like how is it going to be good for them, like forget me. Push me out of the equation for a second and say, ‘wow what are they going to get out of this deal and why would they want to even consider it.' And you know it was really simple things like, ‘hey this is going to make me so much more productive.' Here's what I've already measured on an average day out of the 10 hours a day that I'm spending at the office or you know nine hours a day that I'm spending at the office then four of that four to five of those hours are taken up by people just dropping by my office to have conversation. And as much fun as that is and as much as I enjoy that, it's not helping me move these projects along that I know are critical. So that's where my business case started. And then I just sat down and said, ‘hey look I would love to try this. How could we make this happen. How how could we try this out. Could we try it for just 30 days. See how it goes. If it's not working out let's discontinue it. If it is working out then that's fantastic because that means are more productive. Are you willing to do that.' So we tried it for you know one month and that's how it started. And it was literally that simple of a conversation although there was a lot of thought put into it how it would be really really good for my boss and my employer.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh Scott I love that. And I think one of the biggest takeaways from what you just mentioned, is that the more thoughtfulness you put upfront into presenting the business case of how this is beneficial for them, the fewer potential negative ramifications you're exposing yourself to in having that conversation because I think you're absolutely right to bring up that on occasion. You can have this sort of conversation and it can backfire and your boss can all of a sudden think you know is this person trying to take advantage of the system, do they have one foot out the door. Yada yada yada. And I think that those types of reactions tend to come up when you go into that conversation just under prepared and haven't thought about ways to really show off the business case for why it makes sense for them first before any acknowledgement of the benefits for you.

Scott: This is really interesting because I really thought we were going to go and have a couple of different ways. So oh my goodness there's so many things that cause career change to be difficult especially when you're looking for work that and looking for a career that actually fits you in that you're excited about doing and everything else. But so much of the what stops people is way back in the just going through and doing the job and all the normal stuff that pops up. I know that before we hit the record button you were talking about like internal scripts and beliefs and kind of what we tell ourself and some of those pieces too. And I think that those are really really critical but they cause us not to even believe it's possible in the first place. And therefore if we don't believe it's possible we never are willing to take and act on some of these steps like going and having a really simple conversation with your boss saying, ‘hey look how can we make this better.'

Lisa: Yeah. Oh so true. But the cool thing there is if you are willing to step put a pinky toe into the water of this type of a conversation with your boss that is tough and that requires some courage. Then what else are you capable of doing? You know it certainly would be the most simple and risk managed way for you to test out a career change is that you can get your current employment to make that a possibility for you. But if that's not a possibility and you do your due diligence there you also know you're capable of doing hard things. You're capable of preparing yourself for that sort of a conversation which wouldn't be unlike a new business conversation that you would have if you went out as an entrepreneur or this sort of conversation that you're likely going to have with a future employer when you're saying, ‘I'd love to come work at your organization. Let me talk about all the value that I can bring to what you're trying to do here.'

Scott: I couldn't agree more. I was thinking back to what you had said a little bit earlier and even talking about transition planning and being able to evaluate what the steps look like to get out. But I'm not even sure that that is valuable here except to say that to do any of this stuff, I think that part of what you're going to have to do is figure out at least what the light at the end of the tunnel looks like. I'm not necessarily talking about, look I'm going to make the I don't know I'm going to become a beekeeper and it's going to be awesome and I can't wait to become a beekeeper. And that's what's driving me every single day to be able to make this change. How these hard conversations and everything else. That's not what I'm talking about. Instead I'm talking about how can you imagine what a better life could be and the stuff that's most important to you. And then that can help you work backwards to be able to make some of these steps in the first place and have something to move towards. One of the things that, I can't remember where I've heard it Lisa, but I've seen truth to it again and again and again I think part of what drives progress in any particular area for somebody is and even motivation (people talk about motivation but most people realize that motivation runs out). However if you've got that light at the end of the tunnel that provides hope. And hope often doesn't have to run out. And that can also add in purpose and get into one of 15 billion different studies and stuff saying that all those things are good things. But I think you've got to have some of that to be able to get through any of these hard things because otherwise why am I going to take the time to go and how that difficult conversation with my boss. Why am I going to push past some of these hard things in my head. Why take the time to get to get to know myself in the first place. So what are your thoughts on that first of all?

Lisa: Yes. Oh my goodness. I totally agree. You've got to have a hope and you've got to have that vision for what a future life might look like. And I love a quote from Tony Robbins about how you don't need motivation. You need inspiration when you're trying to think about doing hard things and big things in your life because motivation will come and go and especially if you are in a burnt out situation right now you probably have no motivation to do anything beyond it. Just get yourself out of bed in the morning and you may not even have the motivation to do that. But if you can come up with an inspiring vision of what life could look like for you, you know what that ideal career situation is, that can be the fuel for the fire to keep you moving yourself inch by inch closer to new possibilities and new frontiers.

Scott: One of the things that we have people do in Career Change bootcamp and actually some of our other programs too that I think is really really powerful is called visioning. And there's a lot of different forms that this can look like. And you know I don't know what that sounds like if you haven't heard of this before. Maybe it sounds a little woo or something along those lines. But all it really is, is just helping to paint yourself a picture of what the future can look like and how you want to spend your time. In our case we're looking at it as, ‘hey how do you want to spend your time.' So that can literally be what your ideal day or week looks like. It can also be you know looking at five years in the future and not saying, ‘oh I'm working this type of job. And it's absolutely fantastic. And I'm eating this type of bagel on my way to work or whatever else.' But instead the most important pieces of of what your life looks like at that time. Because when you do that and when you can start to vividly imagine that work is really really really weird, is that you start and begin to make those types of connections for what has to happen in between there. Will you have it all figured out? No not necessarily. But if you've got that you know light at the end of the tunnel like we're talking about because that's what this can be or it can help establish, then you can continuously make decisions on a daily basis even micro decisions that you don't realize that you're making that can move you closer and closer to whatever that vision is that you're talking about. So that's one teeny tiny little trick you know that we use with people that we work with that can help especially when it gets hard because we already established that difficult career changes are by definition difficult, right? I don't think I've ever asked you but have you ever done anything like that Lisa?

Lisa: Scott, I am such a believer in visioning and figuring out what you really want and this is actually a very cool time to ask me that question because I started out my coaching business at the end of 2015. And when I was writing my 2016 goals I wrote down, I'm going to be working for myself before the end of the year. And could I have told you the path to get from there to where I am now? No. Did I have any idea of the twists and turns that it was going to take to figure out how to make that a realistic possibility for me? Oh my goodness no. But were there secret micro decisions that I must have made along the way that helped me to keep this vision at the forefront of my mind to keep moving towards it even when I didn't realize? Absolutely. And you know it's going to happen maybe a couple weeks before the end of the year. But that became a reality for me and it was because I got super clear on what I wanted and then sort of subconsciously started setting myself up for that to become my reality.

Scott: That's how it happens though. So that's something that's really really really difficult to explain to people because it isn't a straight line path. It isn't necessarily step one, step two, step three. Now I think there are. Once you've got that vision established then you can begin to put an you know step two or you figure out what step seven looks like or whatever else and you start to begin chunking those pieces out both consciously and unconsciously. But really what's going on here is kind of the brain's ability to focus on what it deems important versus unimportant. So this is called selection bias. It's the same thing that you know you buy the red Honda or whatever and all of a sudden a red Hondas are everywhere, right? But when you decide that look I'm going to be working for myself or I'm going to be making this transition or I'm going to… I don't know for me, three years ago it was – we're going to spend winters elsewhere. And now we're going to spend six weeks and live in Paris and stuff like that for a while. But you know when you decide those things then all of a sudden you start seeing the how you could do that everywhere. Much like the red Honda that pops up all over the place because you've decided now your brain is filtering in that information versus filtering it out. So it's just getting your natural stuff to work for you rather than against you which is where it's usually working. So I absolutely love that answer. Lisa for so many different reasons many more than we have time to talk about here.

Scott: Okay. So what would be your parting advice to people who are in this place right now where you know maybe they don't have the margin. They're thinking about this process and realizing that it feels insanely difficult. They are wondering you know how do I actually make this change. What does that look like? What is step one? What should they do where should they begin?

Lisa: Well I have a two part advice nugget here. Part one is, if this is a question that is resonating with you about trying to figure out what exactly it is that I want and that I think I could have in my next career move, you have not already signed up for the 8-day mini course you got to do that. It has so many helpful prompts and ideas and exercises and videos from Scott. And I remember back when I was just first learning about HTYC. I saw all of that and was totally blown away at its ability to help focus your brain on and helpful forward moving and forward looking questions. So if you have not already taken a look at that you should definitely go to that.

Lisa: But nugget too of advice is I think the last reason why sometimes these things can feel really big and scary is some folks don't have a 100 percent crystal clear picture of what their current financial runway looks like because I think that the big underlying fear as you're thinking about a career change is, what if I quit my job and don't have anything lined up and then I'm unemployed for six months or something crazy like that. And so what I would say is to help bolster your own faith that you can manage this. Take a look at what's going on with your current bank account and savings. And figure out what sort of financial runway you have in front of you. So what are your current typical monthly living expenses looking like. What savings do you already have in place that could help for you to get by. If heaven forbid, you had this conversation with your boss and it went completely nuclear and once you have a sense of ‘Oh I actually have a two month living expenses already saved up.' Or even better. ‘Oh I already have eight months worth of living expenses saved up that I could tap into if I needed to.' It can help for those hard things to feel a little bit less hard or to feel a little bit easier to tap into the courage and the assuredness that no matter what it's going to work out for you.


Scott: Awesome. That's awesome. And by the way go back and check out if the finance piece is a worry for you. Go back and check out any one of our finances episodes. There's your career and your finances that tells a little bit about Alyssa and my story and how we worked through some of that stuff. There is two or three others where we've taken you through how you can think about finances differently and how it can impact your career in a very positive way versus a very negative way because if you're in a place where you got huge debt or something else then that can certainly be an obstacle. So go check those out as a resource if that is a factor at all. And Lisa I really really really appreciate you making time again. And I also appreciate the thoughts. This is awesome and I would put a call to action out here for you. If you are if you're in any of these places and you're struggling to try and figure out what it is that you should be doing or try and figure out you know what that vision can look like or trying to figure out, ‘hey how do I get out of this you know rat race type mass where I'm just exhausted and burnt out and everything all the time.' You know that's what we do is we help people make this really really difficult life change possible. So don't hesitate to reach out to us. You can contact us directly by email. You can go sign up for the 8-day course. We have a number of different programs like Career Change Bootcamp where we can help you through this process step by step and you've got somebody holding your hand actually. Actually, Lisa holds your hand.

Lisa: I hold your hand but I also lovingly kick your butt.

Scott: Yes. So you got to be prepared for both the front and the back. All right.

Lisa: Now we're just scaring people down. We got to get off.

Scott: We really really appreciate it. Go Go. Let us know how we can be helpful to you. This is what we do. That's what we love to do. We have so much more coming up on next week's show. Next week you can get a pretty big dose of both interesting and fun at the exact same time so take a listen to what's coming up next week.

Preview of next episode

Scott: All right. Next week, Oh I'm so excited. I can't wait until you tune in. I'll see you right back here on Happen To Your Career. Until then I am out. Adios.