686: When Job Security Disappears

(00:00) Amelia Johnson: I was so comfortable in that career, and I kind of felt like I had job security until I didn't, and then I got laid off.

(00:07) Scott Anthony Barlow: Security feels earned when you've invested years, when leadership trusts you, when the culture is built on care.

(00:15) Amelia Johnson: In my last role, I was very close with the people that I worked with. The way that their culture is built is through a foundation of care. They care deeply about their employees.

(00:26) Scott Anthony Barlow: This kind of environment doesn't just feel stable, it feels personal. And that's what makes it complicated because comfort can quietly replace growth.

(00:35) Amelia Johnson: I got to a point where I felt like my growth was kind of tapped.

(00:38) Scott Anthony Barlow: But here's the thing, when everything looks good on paper, and you've been comfortable, leaving feels irrational.

(00:44) Amelia Johnson: In hindsight, I would never recommend that anyone stays at a company because they feel safe.

(00:50) Scott Anthony Barlow: Fractured wasn't only employment, it was the assumption that Loyalty Guarantees Protection.

(00:56) In this episode, you're going to hear how Amelia recalibrated her definition of security and why waiting for disruption can actually cause you momentum and the ability to grow, and what it looks like to choose alignment and fit, especially before crisis forces that reinvention.

(01:13) If you haven't already subscribed, click follow right now so you don't miss any new episodes.

(01:18) This is Happen to Your Career, the podcast that brings you real people, real transformations, and the courage to do work that truly fits. I want you to listen to my conversation with Amelia as she transitioned into a new role in marketing, in a much, much better fit in so many different ways.

(01:36) But I also want you to listen to how she got this job and how she was particularly effective when so many other people will lose time and energy focusing on what they think they have to do.

(01:48) Here's our conversation.

(01:50) Amelia Johnson: I know a lot of your clients are going through a career change while they currently have a career. I was laid off, so I was in kind of a unique scenario. But with that being said, like my ultimate advice is to not wait until you're laid off. 'Cause I got very lucky in the sense where I had the ability to take the time to do this. I was financially lucky 'cause I had a savings, and not everyone has that. And I had been ready for a career move for some time.

(02:21) So it worked out very well for me. However, I think about if this happened to me two years ago, I would've been completely desperate to find a job, and I wouldn't have been able to land somewhere that I was very happy with.

(02:34) 'Cause like when you are in that scenario, you do feel the sense of desperation where you're more at stake at taking the first thing that comes your way.

(02:43) I'm very grateful that I had Diana kind of talk me down some of the opportunities that came my way. At one point, I was interviewing for a marketing position at a Latex glove manufacturing company, and Diana was like, “Is that gonna excite you?”

(03:01) And I thought like, “No, but I really want a job. I don't want this stress.” So I was in a vulnerable position where I was more at risk to accept something like that. She guided me and made me feel confident that the right position was gonna come. We're gonna go through the steps. Trust the process.

(03:20) In my last position, I was there for five years. I loved it. It was a great opportunity. I really had a lot of flexibility and autonomy to build strategies and execute them.

(03:32) With that being said, I was there for a long time, so I had been feeling for a while that I was ready for that next step in my career. I had a lot of autonomy to build out marketing strategies, execute them, build marketing teams, and ultimately build their marketing department from the ground up.

(03:48) I was there for five years. In the last couple of years I was there, I felt ready for that next career move, but I was so comfortable in that career, and I kind of felt like I had job security until I didn't, and then I got laid off last summer.

(04:03) I wasn't truly shocked. However, I just wasn't really prepared for it. So I'm very much so the type where I need a plan in times of uncertainty. So a couple days had gone by, my older sister listens to your podcast.

(04:20) So she actually referred me to some of the podcasts, and then I scheduled a consultation call with someone from your team, and I signed up immediately. I was like, it sounds like this is gonna give me the structure that I need, and I'm a very good student. So I followed the plan and yeah, and then I found my current position.

(04:39) So in my last role, like I said, I was very close with the people that I worked with. The way that their culture is built is through a foundation of care. They care deeply about their employees. But with that being said, there's always gonna be economic stressors that do ultimately affect companies. And so you can't always rely on that relationship to keep your job safe.

(05:05) That's what kept me there, I think, for a while, was because I was very feeling very safe, but I got to a point where I felt like my growth was kind of tapped. I had built what I felt I could build, and I didn't feel like I had resources to really implement meaningful, like cool marketing campaigns anymore.

(05:24) In hindsight, I would never recommend that anyone stays at a company because they feel safe with the people that they work with. You have to always focus on what's right for you and what's right for your career and what aligns with your goals.

(05:38) And that should be first and foremost what's important. So I wish that I kind of thought from that mindset a little bit sooner. And I think I probably would've looked a lot earlier, and I was kind of complacently looking, but I didn't know exactly how to look for a job.

(05:55) I was just randomly applying to jobs. I was one of like 3000 applicants. So, of course, my applications were getting lost.

(06:02) Scott Anthony Barlow: Doing what everybody else does and clicking the button to apply, but I love what you're talking about, though. I think you make a really important point, and what I took from what you were saying is that you wish you would've recognized that a big chunk of the reason that you were staying at the time was primarily because you felt safe, and that, to your point, can't be the primary reason that you're staying someplace in one way or another. And it sounds like there were more reasons. Sounds like this was a great organization for you. It definitely served you very, very well for a portion of your career. Great people there.

(06:42) So all of that is good, but then this became a much higher reason. So that's really self-aware of you to recognize that now. Do you feel like you're going to be able to have better visibility to win, or if that happens in the future and you need another change? Or how do you think about, now that you've made this transition, how do you think about preventing that in the future as things change?

(07:10) Amelia Johnson: So, in my time when I was laid off, I took the time to reflect on my career as a whole. I was working with Visit St. Pete-Clearwater, and it was probably my favorite position that I've ever held, and I started there as a social media specialist.

(07:25) It was a fairly entry-level position. Like I said, I was really young, and I hadn't really thought about my career trajectory in a meaningful, intentional way before that until my boss actually promoted me without me even applying for the promotion.

(07:43) We were having a meeting company-wide, and he announced a new role for digital producer and was like, “I have someone in mind for the team.” I was like, “Oh, cool. Who?” And then he pulled me aside and was like, “It's you.” And that was a really pivotal point in my career because I've had someone who believed in me and pushed me and challenged me in a very meaningful way.

(08:03) And for me, that's what is gonna always be really important on the go forward as someone who's constantly challenging me, but also like for me as a leader too, in my position, like I always wanna make sure that wherever I'm at, there's growth opportunities for myself and my team. And I think in my last position, there weren't any more growth opportunities that were presenting themselves to me.

(08:27) So I'm gonna be very aware of that on the go forward, whoever I'm working with like feels the same way that I felt in that moment early on in my career, and that I also continue to feel that way, where I am always on the lookout for what's next for me.

(08:43) Scott Anthony Barlow: Let's go back to just the trajectory here. How long did this take you to accept an offer, all the way from the point where you got laid off to offer acceptance? How many months was that? How many interviews did it take? How many offers did you end up turning down or getting near to towards and then end up walking away from?

(09:07) Amelia Johnson: So it took four months and at the end, it was between two positions and the other position, I had actually like four interviews with different people and, in that experience, I didn't get great feelings or vibes from the way that they were communicating with me and through the structures of their interviews, and this company, they just checked all the marks like they aligned with my values.

(09:37) They were really respectful in their communication style and intentional and follow ups. In four months, that for me is something I'm really proud of because I also am at a point where when I got laid off, I was doom scrolling LinkedIn, which I don't know is like really a thing, but you see all these other market.

(09:57) Scott Anthony Barlow: The struggle is real.

(09:59) Amelia Johnson: Yes. But I saw so many marketing professionals announcing their layoff or talking about how they've been unemployed for eight plus months, and it's a really tough industry, and it's a tough field. It’s very competitive. And I think I just was equipped with the right tools to really stand out and connect with the right people to have the right conversations to better place me.

(10:23) Scott Anthony Barlow: It wasn't easy to be able to go from laid off all the way to accepting the right offer. And yeah. Before we started recording, you and I had a little bit of conversation about how there were opportunities that you wanted to accept and decided, “No, this actually isn't a fit,” but you were dangerously close to accepting those.

(10:44) When you think back over the entirety of the process, what did you do earlier on that allowed you to then say no to the wrong opportunities as they came up later?

(10:55) Amelia Johnson: I sat down. I analyzed, basically like who I am as a person and what kind of work environments I thrive in, what kind of teams I do the best work with, and what cultures, like company cultures, are most important to me, and what ultimately is like the most important to me as far as day-to-day interactions go.

(11:18) So I was able to really sit down and define what that looked like, and whenever I was actually face-to-face with these different opportunities, I would see that and do they follow up with me in a respectable amount of time? Like they had three interviews with me in one week, and then I don't hear anything from them for three weeks, I didn't love that. So that was a red flag for me, and I was able to identify that really early on.

(11:45) And then in my current role. I had my interview immediate follow-up. If there was ever delay, it was communicated with me like what to expect or why there was a delay. I just felt very respected, and for me, in my role, one thing that I really value is feeling like I am respected. So in that initial interview process, I know you're interviewing a ton of people, but you put so much effort into these interviews, like I would spend hours preparing for them.

(12:16) My entire day would be completely. I would just block it off for the interview so that I could, like, release any nerves or practice any last-minute scripting, or not scripting, but interview prep. To put that kind of energy into it and then to just not hear anything back is it's disrespectful. So that was like a huge thing is just feeling that respect along the way.

(12:42) It took about a month to even define what that looked like, like what those values looked like for me and what I should be looking for in my next role. And when you are in a position that I was in, I was laid off. I was starting to get a little antsy and nervous, like, why is this taking so long?

(13:00) I really need to start applying for jobs. But you can't apply for jobs until you know what companies align with the values that are your priority. And that's just kind of reinforces the idea. Don't wait until you're laid off because you're gonna jump the gun on these, like very important steps. Or you might feel eager to, and if you are in a position where you're laid off, I'm really sorry that you're going through that, but definitely trust the process, and you'll be far more likely to find the right fit.

(13:32) Otherwise, you might end up stuck somewhere that you're not happy, you're not gonna thrive, and that could really impact your career growth in the long run. At one point, I think it was a few sessions in, and I was like,

(13:44) “Diana, can I start throwing my resume out there?” And she was like, “If you see something you really like, I will work with you. But that's not typically how we operate.” I trusted the process. I'm not as versed in how things work, so I was like, you know better, so I'm gonna trust you, but I really wanna feel like I'm actually applying for things. And you do get that sense of like, okay, like check the box. I applied for this position.

(14:08) But again, if you're just like randomly applying for jobs, you're not gonna find the right fit. And if you do happen to get an interview, which is gonna be a lot harder if you're literally just throwing your application in the hat, again, you might find yourself stuck in a position that isn't quite right for you.

(14:28) Scott Anthony Barlow: I think the thing that happens that most people don't see is that when they just jump into that job search phase really quickly without doing some of the prerequisite work to understand what they really want, they end up spreading their time too thin without knowing it because it feels like if they're going on interviews and talking to people, it feels like progress, but they may not realize just how badly of a fit it is.

(14:54) So then, it's hours that you can't get back, hours and days that add up to months that you can't ever get back that are taking you the wrong direction, and people don't see it until after the fact, sometimes way too late.

(15:07) Amelia Johnson: And it can feel very overwhelming when you do it that way. When you're trying to track that like hundreds of jobs that you're applying for. I did not apply for—I think I applied for maybe four to six jobs. And that was through very intentionally researching the company, the role, and making sure that it was the right fit.

(15:25) Reaching out to the right people to get me connected with the right person at that company that can get me in and, you know, a foot in the door. And that in itself takes a lot of energy, but it was far less overwhelming than I've heard of people that have gone through this experience, and they had a tracker of the jobs that they've applied for, which is a smart thing to do regardless.

(15:49) But they had hundreds of jobs that they just applied for, and that, for me, I would feel like I'm drowning. And that I think is far more disheartening because it took four months for me to find the position. And when I did start applying for jobs or connecting with people, even though I maybe didn't get an interview, I still felt like I was making progress because I spoke to someone that I got insight from or I felt like I made another connection.

(16:20) So that in itself was less of a blow than, like, I think it's just people get so burnt out and disheartened, but I was still talking to people who were genuinely helpful regardless of getting an interview.

(16:34) Scott Anthony Barlow: Walk me through what you did to get to the point where you had an accepted offer. What ended up working overall?

(16:45) Amelia Johnson: Once I identified this is a company that really aligns with my values in terms of their culture, I read the job description and everything about the job description excited me and was everything that I wanted to like focus in on in terms of my skills and experience. From there, I reached out to a connection who was able to refer me. Referrals are key in these scenarios, and they were able to connect me with a recruiter.

(17:13) I had my interviews. I had to build my resume, which again, knowing how to build like a proper resume, utilizing AI tools, but like in a very intentional, specific way, that was also very important. LinkedIn helped me a lot as far as being just another area that reinforces my experience and skills. It’s basically a snapshot of who I am as a professional. So understanding how to optimize that, because I saw a lot of people from my current position and my team, they were looking at my profile ahead of time. And I do think that that helps establish who you are as a professional, providing that kind of information to them.

(17:58) And then I had my interviews and having the framework of how to prepare for an interview without overly scripting answers, but understanding certain stories that you can refer back to during the interview to really highlight your experience in navigating that.

(18:16) And from there, it just was understanding who you're talking to. Like I interviewed with my direct boss, and I was able to identify this is someone that I feel very like is very smart and someone that I'm gonna feel inspired by, and that was something that was really important to me.

(18:34) So just being able to pick up on certain things, knowing that that's important in my next role and meeting the team, I had the opportunity to meet with like, the entire marketing team, and I was like, these are amazing humans. Like, they're so talented and creative and smart, and I just really see myself thriving amongst these people. And I was able to do all that because I had that very clearly defined.

(18:59) Scott Anthony Barlow: With the initial portion of the process, where you reached out to somebody who you already knew, they created a connection.

(19:06) I have talked to so many people over the years that have really struggled with that portion. They'll say things like, got this person I knew to create a connection. They introduced me and da dah, dah, dah, dah, and it went nowhere.

(19:22) And I've realized that there's a whole set of skills in itself in order to make it easier for people to create connections, especially in these types of scenarios. And I'm curious, as you think back on that, what worked? What do you think made that situation work and get to the next step?

(19:42) Amelia Johnson: So in this specific scenario, it was unique because he was just a friend of an old friend.

(19:51) Scott Anthony Barlow: They always are. They are always unique.

(19:54) Amelia Johnson: Yeah. But he was able to refer me. He's like a really good acquaintance, so he was very comfortable referring me.

(20:02) However, with that being said, prior to that, I was with my last job. I was there for five years, and then before that, Visit St. Pete-Clearwater. But before that, I also was like in the same company. So cumulatively, I was in my last position for eight years of my professional career.

(20:20) I was not networked. I never used LinkedIn. I was never curious about meeting other people in the industry or marketing field. So I didn't have anyone that I felt that I could reach out to, which was one of the things that I was really anxious about in my initial layoff, because I knew how critical it is to be networked in terms of job opportunities.

(20:45) So I had explained that to Diana, and she was like, there are a lot of really creative ways to build on your existing network and using LinkedIn. I have some people that I hadn't really considered. They’re like friends, so I didn't consider to like network with them professionally, but they were able to get me conversations from people, from companies that I was interested in.

(21:10) LinkedIn. It was really interesting 'cause I only had like 200 connections back then. And they were all random, like just not people that I actually knew. But with that being said, there were companies where I knew how to look up who works there, and then I never had any first-degree connections, but I had second-degree connections.

(21:30) So I was able to reach out to my second-degree connections to connect me with a first-degree connection from that company. And for the most part, just understanding humans generally wanna help and they're very happy to help. If they don't get back to you, it's usually just because they don't have time or they're busy.

(21:53) It's rarely personal. Shoot your shot, like reach out to someone who you think might be able to connect you with the right person at a company you're interested in, if you don't have like a first-degree connection, and you know, just stay curious about what people do and where they work and how they like their position.

(22:11) And just going through that whole process was really eye-opening for me, 'cause like I said, that was one of the biggest things that I was very anxious about was how I felt I was so un-networked, but now I'll never take for granted building relationships from other industries. You just never know where that relationship can lead you in terms of opportunity.

(22:34) So first of all, that is the perfect way to relate to, I mean, you interact with so many people every day. Like, I reached out to people that I barely knew, and they were so excited to hear from me. And like to connect with me. I would say just have the confidence in, as far as advice goes, like have the confidence in yourself and who you are and your ability to connect with people. And just understand that people genuinely wanna help, and if they don't respond to you, don't take things personally.

(23:03) Just reach out to the next person and keep going. And, I really think it's just having that confidence in yourself and not taking things too personally if things don't pan out exactly as you had expected in that initial outreach.

(23:19) Scott Anthony Barlow: What helped you most in the interview process? I heard you say that you spent quite a bit of time prepping, and also, what did you specifically do that really helped you feel more prepared during that portion?

(23:35) Amelia Johnson: I sat down with an Excel sheet that you guys provided. I thought about different key points in my career situations that I've gone through based on that job description that I was applying for, and I thought about the scenario. Like why it happened, how I handled it, and what the outcome was. So just being confident in the stories that you can share without having it scripted was extremely helpful.

(23:59) I'm definitely better at articulating my experience and my role, and I had a deep understanding. I had the prep under my belt, like I understood how to actually prepare for an interview. So I am definitely a more confident interviewer, I will say, today than I was previously.

(24:19) Scott Anthony Barlow: My understanding of your story is that you also, in addition to applying to four to six, there were plenty of organizations that you were researching or looking at prior to sending out those applications. So I think a little bit of the story gets lost because you were ruling people out.

(24:34) You were looking at it in reverse, where you were saying, “Is this an organization that I truly want to work for or with, and what evidence do I have?”

(24:43) I'm interested to hear a little bit about what that part of the process was like for you. How many organizations do you think you looked at, and what are some of the ways that you would whittle it down to get to this eventual four to six that you actually knew were a better fit?

(24:58) Amelia Johnson: I reached out to a lot of people at organizations that I thought would be a great fit. If I didn't hear back, I didn't apply. Just knowing that I didn't wanna waste, not waste time, but spend time on something that I knew wasn't gonna go anywhere.

(25:12) I understood that I really needed a connection to be able to stand out. And there were other companies where I was making connections, so I focused more energy on building those connections.

(25:25) And then, as far as searching for companies that there were some companies that I thought would be really cool to work for, but then I would look at them, and I would have to move to Arizona, which I wasn't willing to do.

(25:37) So there were certain geographical factors that played into it. Others were remote at the time I was looking for a remote position. Funny enough, I'm not remote right now, but I actually kinda love working in an office environment, so I was remote for five years. I got so used to it, and I genuinely thought that I would never be able to go back to an office setting.

(26:02) Turns out I thrive in your routine. So for anyone who does think that they're only remote, just keep your mind open, perhaps to working in an office. But yeah, I mean, other than that, just looking at their culture, and there were some where I was looking for a company that was really innovative in their marketing and that had resources and that I could tell really prioritize their marketing and understood the value that it brings to the company.

(26:29) There were some companies where I would look, and I would look at what they're doing on social and their website, and I'd be like, “Hmm, I don't think that they're putting the amount of resources into marketing that I would really wanna be part of in terms of the team.”

(26:45) I am a baker at heart. I love to bake, and I think that kind of perfectly describes like how I move through life. I follow the instructions.

(26:56) Scott Anthony Barlow: Interesting.

(26:57) Amelia Johnson: Like if I follow the instructions to a T for a five-star recipe, it's gonna produce a good outcome.

(27:06) Scott Anthony Barlow: It's gonna be five stars.

(27:07) Amelia Johnson: Exactly. So, like in terms of speaking to Happen To Your Career, you guys laid the framework, and I followed the instructions to the T. I did everything Diana told me to do, and it produced a good outcome. So I just kind of look at it like that.

(27:24) I would probably just tell myself like, it's gonna be okay, like stop scrolling and reading everyone else's horror stories about being laid off, because that does cause panic.

(27:36) And that did cause me to interview for a couple positions that just were not right. But those interviews were also valuable 'cause it kind of, it shook the nerves off like the, you know, I haven't interviewed in a long time. So those were even good experiences, but I don't think I would really do anything that differently.

(27:54) I feel like I signed up right away. I am so grateful for it, and I followed a framework, and I trusted the process, and I had the confidence in myself and my skills to land somewhere that I really love working at. That is really, that really values my skills too.

(28:14) Scott Anthony Barlow: What other advice would you give to somebody who's in your situation, where they know that they want to make a change and are comfortable? Let’s go all the way back there. Somebody else who's in that situation that you were in, and they feel safe, but they haven't necessarily done anything about it actively.

(28:34) Amelia Johnson: Maybe start with LinkedIn. If you're not super active on LinkedIn, I will say like once I started optimizing my LinkedIn and creating content and sharing my thoughts, I was getting engagement, and that made me feel that in itself, something about getting that kind of validation for hearing my professional insight on that platform made me feel really empowered to like, “Wow, consider like what does the next chapter look like for me?”

(29:03) And through that, you're also making connections and establishing yourself in some kind of like authority in the matter. So I would say maybe just like start small. You don't have to jump right into it, but start making small moves that kind of helps give you the confidence to make that bigger move.

(29:23) When I was laid off, I didn't really know what to do with my days, and it is important to stay productive and you can only apply for jobs for—go through the experience of finding a new job for so many hours in the day.

(29:38) That was my time to explore like different passions. I started volunteering at an animal shelter, and I realized my love for shelter dogs and like animal advocacy. So I was able to take that time to really see what that looks like and come up with a plan, like when I do work full-time, how can I keep this up?

(29:59) But finding like a deeper sense of purpose, if you do find the time to—I had those four months to explore that, and I'm so grateful that I was able to like, really, take the time to sit down and be like, what really drives me? And I started doing that, and I'm not gonna stop it. And I feel like my life is so much more meaningful now because I have that part of me. But, make sure that, if you do find yourself laid off, like definitely take the time to explore things that you really love that you've been putting off for a long time. And maybe that's travel. Like, I kind of wish I traveled, but was like scared to spend money, so I did not.

(30:36) But if you do have the ability to travel and you want to, then do it and trust that if you follow the right steps to find a job, then you will find a job eventually.

(30:48) I would take my dogs for a sunrise walk. There's this park called Vannoy Park, and you can see the sunrise over the water. It's beautiful. So every morning it was my ritual. I would take them for a walk, watch the sunrise, go to the gym, come home. Get ready for the day.

(31:06) That was important to me because if I didn’t, then I would just—the second I sat down on the couch, I wasn't getting up. So I'd get ready for the day and then sit, do my homework for as far as like finding my next position.

(31:19) I also started helping promote shelter dogs for them as well. So I was still tapping into my skillset and leveraging it in a way that felt really meaningful for me. So I was still staying active in my career. And I also took a lot of LinkedIn learning classes, and I tried to hone in on skills that maybe I wanted to like really get sharper at. So I would look at different online courses, and I would schedule it out. But at the beginning of each week, I did sit down, look at the week ahead, and I had my morning routine set. But for the rest of the day, I would make sure that I had things that made me feel productive. But then I would also give me a couple days of just like free days.

(32:03) Like maybe I go to the beach, or you know. I would go, there's this one bar that's local here, and on Wednesdays they do like a Happy Meal deal, and it's like french fries and martinis. And so there were a couple Wednesdays where I'm like, all right, like, I'm gonna just go at, started at like five.

(32:23) So I went really early and just kind of give yourself the flexibility to enjoy yourself and indulge a little bit. But indulging doesn't feel fun when you don't feel productive. Make sure that you're doing things to feel productive as well.

(32:39) Scott Anthony Barlow: If you're ready to stop believing the stories that are actually keeping you stuck and start creating the career and the life that you want, drop me an email directly, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. We'll connect you with the right person on our team, and we'll figure out the very best way that we can support you.

Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search