594: Unhappy, Isolated, and Stuck: Breaking Free from Career Dissatisfaction

Louise McNee 00:01

Everybody gets days where, you know, they hate their job, or things are not going well, or they might be a bit lower than they normally are. It's just hard to kind of tell people that that's how you feel almost every minute of every day. And I felt like my energy, it's just taken all of my energy just to get through the day. Never mind thinking about what I wanted to be doing and how to get out of it, that was way past me.

Introduction 00:30

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:54

Since 2013, we've talked with many thousands of people about their career changes, about how they're thinking about work, about what has been great, what has been terrible, and everything in between. So consequently, we get a lot of insight into how people struggle with career change, as well as how they're successful in career change. Something I found really fascinating is when people have been struggling in the wrong career, in the wrong roles that are unfulfilling for many years, not just like one or two or three years, but many, many years, maybe even changing roles multiple times.

Louise McNee 01:40

So it's kind of, like, "oh, just what are you complaining about?" You know. This is just, you've got it all, just get over it. It just must be a phase that you're going through. And then the other side of that is, I just really did not know what another option was or what I wanted.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:57

That's Louise McNee. She went to business school. She worked a series of business operations jobs that, as you'll be able to hear, weren't totally satisfying for her. She does a great job explaining how it felt to be unhappy at work and how difficult it was to understand why she was so unhappy, or to even explain it to other people, like her loved ones. This is incredibly isolating. That sense of loneliness can actually be an obstacle in itself to career change. You know, that whole, "I'm the only one who feels this way. What's wrong with me?" And the truth is that it's a very common experience. Louise talks about that lonely feeling later on in this episode. So stay with us. It's something that anyone thinking about career change absolutely needs to hear. Here's Louise explaining where everything started out for her.

Louise McNee 02:50

So I started out, and it's quite a sad story, really, when somebody asks you what you want to be when you're little. And I don't actually know why, but I said, "I wanted to be an accountant."

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:02

Really? Are you the only one in the world that said that when you were...?

Louise McNee 03:08

I believe so, and I don't know whether I should admit to it. But I think I was about age six, and my background, I'm the first in the family to go to university to do professional qualifications. So I don't really know where this idea came from, but I used to enjoy counting. My mom and dad used to collect copper coins, and I used to enjoy counting them. So I don't know where that came from.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:34

That's amazing.

Louise McNee 03:36

It's quite sad. You know, I didn't want to be a, you know, a hero, stessel, any of those other exciting jobs that people want to do.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:42

Yeah, one of the ones people that, "I want to be an astronaut. I want to be a doctor. I want to..." whatever else. And, you know, I said accounting in jest. I actually know a bunch of people that absolutely love accounting. I don't personally and I don't have the strengths that are very suitable for accounting but I think that's super cool and I love how unique that is that 8 years old, like, "I want to be an accountant."

Louise McNee 04:07

I probably could have told you what one did. Yeah, that's how I started. So I kind of, I did, you know, business studies at university I went through, and I had a very linear career path. And it probably wasn't a huge amount of thought into my path. And I mean that in terms of, I was just in that traditional, you get a job, you work hard, you get promotion, you move up, you do a slightly different job, and that's kind of what I've done. So I started off studying CMA, Chartered Management Accountants, and I just moved through roles, you know, with job descriptions of management accountant, financial accountant and yeah I just did that. Every move was a promotion and a chance to gain new skills. But over the last 15 years or so, I've pretty much been in the same career, just moving from, I don't do any day to day transactions stuff now, so I've moved from having to actually make sure that P&L is okay or looking at balance sheets. I hate that. That's not where my motivation lies, so thankfully that's all moved away, that's been learned, done, helped me to be where I am today and now it's moving towards the strategic and the real business conversations.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:30

When did you realize, I'm curious, like, where along the way did you have some of those realizations that, you know, going from, "Hey, I'm 8 years old and want to be an accountant", moving into it and starting to realize that, "I actually don't really like the balance sheet stuff." Do you remember any specific moments where you had that realization?

Louise McNee 05:49

No... I just think looking back at those... I just knew that there was part of my job that really frustrated me. And there is probably no specific moment and it's probably maybe only over the last three to four years that I've really thought about, "why do I get frustrated?" or "what's not motivating me." And then it's kind of, I just don't like that day to day. Because the situation may change, the industry may change, but what you're actually doing doesn't change. So for me, I just got really bored.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:23

So after you recognized that you were getting bored then, what happened from there? Because you says, you sounded like, you know, that was three or four years ago at this point, and what ended up happening from there in your career as you acknowledged, "Hey look, this kinda sucks and I don't want to do this forever, it might be somebody's gig but it's probably not where I want to spend the vast majority of my time." What happened at that point?

Louise McNee 06:49

Yeah, so, the first time I started thinking about this it probably, or definitely wasn't the way I think about it now. So it was like, "Okay, this isn't for me. It's not happening to me. Let's just go and do it somewhere else." Oh it's going to be completely different in a new business. So I had an opportunity to work for a company which the role never existed before. So it was a startup element of a huge corporate global company and they never needed somebody locally to look at the stuff that I look at. So I kind of thought that that would be a nice avenue to move away, try something different and see if I could crack that wall myself and make it do what I want to do. And I was promised that it would be a mix of the transactional and strategic. So I was like, this is great. You know it's the perfect opportunity for me to get that experience and really opt what I can say to people that this is what I do and really proves that I do more than the typical accountant. It didn't actually work out that way.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:01

I was gonna ask you how that happened in reality. It sounds like there's another shoe dropping here someplace.

Louise McNee 08:07

Yeah. I think, you know, and this is a huge line for me, as well, and it has really made me since when I've had interviews with other company. It really made me go to that for jobs, you interview the company as well, they don't just interview you. And the lesson for me that really helped, in fact, that I really needed to draw down into bit more detail, because while the intention was there, they just went up the stage, right to have that person who was ready to do what I wanted to do and which had kind of done throughout my career, you know, it's always been a part of my role to do the challenging, the asking the questions, the looking at things a slightly different way. The day to day dragged me down more than I thought it would and more than they thought it would as well. And that, it also wasn't a very good environment. And it's the first time I think I've been in an environment I've really struggled with

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:10

In what way? What made the environment there such a struggle for you?

Louise McNee 09:16

Yeah. The culture. The culture was very, very different. I was the only female on a leadership team, and they weren't quite ready, I think. And I...

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:30

You weren't quite ready for a female on the leadership team? Is that what you...?

Louise McNee 09:33

So somebody who have maybe a female leader who had strong thoughts and wasn't afraid disagreeing with people. You know, the company have had, and it might not have been entirely female, although there was an element of that, because I wasn't the only person who went through the same experience. But it was... A lot of people have been working together for a long time, had been in similar industries for a long time. And so their thought patterns had kind of automatically convened. And so, you know, I come in, I've worked for multiple different industries. I've changed jobs quite regularly. And so I come in with a whole new different set of thoughts and ideas and ways of seeing things, and I don't think they were quite ready for some of my questions.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:22

So you had infiltrated the club, and you've got all of these new different experiences and everything else that goes along with it. And at that point in time, it sounds like they were less than what you'd hoped for receptive. Is that fair to say?

Louise McNee 10:39

That's fair to say, yes. So that was the first time that I let... career is very important to me. It's probably... and I realized this after working with Lisa over the last year or so, I put so much weight on my career, it kind of defined me in a way. And I think some of that might be because of my upbringing. In fact I'm the only one to have done this thing so... and nobody else is going to feel this way but I've put it on me that I had to be great at this, I had to know what I was doing. Now I have to constantly, you know, progress. And that I would just be this one that had it all sorted. This was the first time I went, "oh. I don't actually like this. And I don't know if I want to be doing this anymore."

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:30

That is so interesting. If I might ask you about that for just a second because I think it's fascinating that when we, and I very much, I've done this a lot of different times of my life too where I will define who I am in some ways by what it is that I'm doing at that particular time. Often it is also with my career. And it's interesting how that can cause you to, in some cases, like stay in a place longer than you probably should have. I'm curious, was that what happened there as well? Because it sounds like at some point you recognize that. But, how did you think about that once you started to realize that, "Hey this is... this definition of myself is causing some less desirable pieces."?

Louise McNee 12:18

Yeah, there's probably two things to it. One is, you know, you just tell yourself, suck it up, you know.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Louise McNee 12:26

You're in a really good position compared to other people, you know, your salary is great, you're working for big name companies, you've had a progression. When you go and speak to people, it's taken me a long time to kind of be able to... be proud of my achievements and be able to sell them to people rather than complain in them. And so it kind of, "oh, just what are you complaining about?" This is just, you've got it all. Just get over it, it just must be a phase. Go in three. And then the other side of that is, I just really did not know what the option was or what I wanted. So that was one of the hardest things. And so even from this role I moved again to another company and did almost exactly the same role. I still went through that. It must be the company. It's the company that's making me feel this way. Not the actual role. I just did not know what else to do, I did not know if there was another career out there for me. I did not know... I didn't know how to get out of it. So I just stayed in it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:32

What was that like? Because that's, you know, still semi recent for you. What was that like being in that particular place where you didn't know but realized that something's wrong?

Louise McNee 13:48

Yeah, really hard because I happened to get in the role afterwards. So this was two roles in a row that I was having these feelings and I was so trapped. And it really impacted, you know, I'm normally a happy, bubbly person. My friends say that I'm always up for a laugh, I'm the one that can have, you know, will try and look on the positive side. I went a complete opposite. I was a nightmare. I wasn't quite married at the time, but my poor husband, I've never cried so much because I just felt completely trapped in not knowing what to do. And as well as, I know my pride myself on being the tough one. For me to just... I just... and I couldn't even tell him what point why I was crying. Because when you're trying to articulate to people why you're feeling, how you are feeling and if they're trying to give examples, I find a lot... they sound really minor when you're trying to give examples because it's hard to explain to people why you feeling the way you are. It's just, when you add it all together in a big bootcamp, it's obviously making you feel so bad. But I found it really hard to not only understand myself but also try to explain to other people. So I felt like I was in a cycle of, I didn't have anybody or I felt like I wasn't explaining to people well enough so they could help me. If that makes sense.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:25

Well, it's hard to understand. I mean, let's be honest, even when you're in it and you're experiencing it, it's hard to understand for yourself to really truly get what's going on, let alone be able to help other people understand as well, because in some ways too especially if you have done well and you have been continuously moving up the ranks, you've done a lot of things that most people would look at from the outside and say, "Wow. She got an amazing life and career" and everything else along those lines. And it is difficult to be able to articulate that in a way that really helps people understand what's going on from the inside looking out.

Louise McNee 16:14

Yeah. Especially because people, everybody gets days right, they hate their jobs, or things are not going well, or they might be lower than they normally are. It's just hard to kind of tell people that that's how you feel almost every minute of every day. And I felt like my energy is just taken all of my energy just to get through the day. Never mind thinking about what I wanted to be doing and how to get out of it. That was way past of me. It was such hard work to get up in the morning, get in the car, drive to work, do a full day at work, get home and feel like I had managed to get through the day.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:50

We see this really interesting phenomenon as we've worked with people over the years and we see that for that exact reason, it really starts to compound and actually it turns an already complex and frustrating problem into an even much larger and more complex one too, because not only are you doing exactly what you described, like you're in a role where it's totally zapping your energy, and at the same time, it's difficult to be able to explain it to other people, understand what is going on, but then even trying to think about what to do about it after you've already spent day after day after day where your energy is zapped and it's taking all of those pieces of you then it turns into this bit of a cycle where... and we call this "The Stuck Cycle" again and again. But I'm curious, what happened where you decided, "look, I've got to do something differently" and how did you begin to get out of this?

Louise McNee 17:48

Yeah. I think I've always been pretty, my personality, I've always been really big into self development, doing other things, challenging myself, so I do naturally have that mindset of, I don't like to sit and complain about stuff and not do something about it. That's just me. I think one of the and it's quite this being completely open and it's quite comfortable for me to be open. I was out for dinner with my husband. Let's say, we weren't married then but we were planning a wedding, I was crying in the restaurant. And he's like, "This is not what life is. This is not, you know, we were trying to plan the wedding. Got so many exciting things to be looking forward to. Why are you crying in a public restaurant embarrassing me?" and, you know, my poor husband didn't know what to do.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:41

He sound like... That is the ultimate test, by the way. Clearly, you've got a good guy.

Louise McNee 18:47

Yeah. He's been very good. And I think it's very hard for him as far. Because when we met, and I have always portrayed that I've got things sorted. Career is really important and he saw a change from the person he met to somebody who was really the strong, knew where she was going, had everything in her sights, enjoyed life to this person's, "why are you crying again?"

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:19

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

Louise McNee 19:20

He still married me. So like, for me, he's definitely a good one.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:25

That's funny. There's a test, might be hard to duplicate that exact test, but if you find yourself in that place and they react this way, you know you've got a good one.

Louise McNee 19:37

Yeah. And then, talking him, you know, he really tried to understand. He does a similar role to me now and he came through in a different way. He did the audit background. I've never done audit. So I think, in one way, it was harder for him to understand because he just thought, while he was having the same experience as me, but it wasn't impacting him in the way that it was impacting me. And I just got to that point, and I thought, “This is not me. This is…” I've been crying on friends, I've been crying on Mark, down the line. But I can remember Lisa and I had to walk in a few sessions booked in. And I just derailed it completely because the minute she said, "hello" I burst out crying.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:22

So to give a little bit of context. At some point along the way as you recognized that you wanted to make changes, we got the pleasure of working with you, and Lisa, who's one of the coaches on our team.

Louise McNee 20:33

Yes, I did. And it took me a while to get to that point of asking for help.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:38

What took that... What did you perceive as the hardest part to get to that point of asking for help like you're talking about?

Louise McNee 20:45

So I think for me, it's just... I thought I had to figure it all out myself, it's that kind of thought verbatim, saying to somebody, “I don't actually know” and being open and so for months, I listened to the podcast on my way to and from work. I listen, you know, and re-thinking, yeah this sounds really great. This is something I definitely need. But actually you know, writing the email or making that step to actually say, “I need this”, was somehow really hard for me. So I remember having a, as I said, I've also got that fundamental part of me that doesn't just like to let things carry on. Once I know something needs to be changed, I will kind of know I need to change it. And there was one of my younger brothers, he's just a few years younger than me, but he said something to me once, which I always resonated with me. He said, "things might not work out the way you want them to work out but you've never not done what you wanted to do. You've always found a way. You've just got to be remember that it might be a different way to what you wanted it to be." And that, you know, I don't know if my brother knows how much that resonated with me and stuck with me. And so for me, that was... that right. Okay, I know I need to change. I know I need help. I can't do this on my own, you know what, I have to let my pride, maybe it's not the right word, but I have to let that go a little bit and say to somebody, "I need help." So I actually took, I think I had a few conversations where I got in touch and discussed working on career change bootcamp and then I got a little bit of a cold feet and I backed off. And I went on holiday and then just the thought of actually going back to work after that holiday, so I can't do it. I've been away for two weeks, now I'm really need to be serious about this now and do something about it. And that's when I finally thought right, I'm committed, I'm going to get some help.

Scott Anthony Barlow 22:49

That is so interesting. And I think that that is so real world and I appreciate you sharing that because a lot of times that's how it happens for most of us. It happens in stages. It's not like this epiphany at the top of a mountain, I don't know, after whatever and all of a sudden like we know what we're going to do and we know how we're going to get help and we know how we're going to make it all happen and everything else along those lines, that really happens in those smaller realizations and then that event leads to another event and another event and then all of a sudden we're at the point where it's like, “okay, I've got to do something.” But it's all of the other pieces that got you to that point as well. I so appreciate you sharing that. So here's a different question, though, and I'm super curious, you ended up working with Lisa, and had a lot of these realizations along the way. What caused you or what do you feel like allowed you to make the most headway on this? Aside from some of the realizations that you had. Because now, you're in this new role, and it didn't happen by magic. It was a bunch of hard work. You and I, before we hit the record button too, said, "Hey, when you're in the moment, it really just feels like a lot of hard work in some ways, right?"

Louise McNee 24:05

Yes. I think the real realization and this was where Lisa was worth her weight in gold. It was the realization that I don't have to go from a bad situation to the perfect situation straight away. I just wasn't in that place, you know, going back to my mental and emotional state trying to do. So, I did go and I spoke to 10 or 20 people in the areas I thought I wanted to do in their companies, I wanted to work with. I was doing all of that,and that was really, really beneficial for me, but it wasn't getting me into a good place. And so a conversation with Lisa was, "Okay, how do we get you into a place where you can then start thinking about that? Because going from that to that is not working." My brain could not cope with the thought process of, "I needed to get out of my mental state of where I was at the moment. I needed to get out of a company and a role that wasn't making me fulfilled and was perpetuating this, you know, negative vibe." And so that was where the planning of, okay, so what's really important to you really came into place. So for me, there was a couple of key buckets. So when you look at, you know, culture of a company, location of a company, whether there's a different type of industry, whether you know, flexibility plays a part. And also for me, I'm a big... I have a huge social conscience. So I do quite a fair bit of mentoring through charities. And so we kind of, we decided that the best route for me, at the time, was to get myself into a really good company that ticked off those items, and then we can potentially think about longer term, see how I feel about the role in a new company that does tick off those items. So it kind of everything flows through. I went to speak to, you know, lots of different people, and I spoke to people in charities and foundations, and worked out really quickly that wasn't the avenue for me, because they have a lot of transactional day to day, niggly frustrations that would just move me from having that scenario somewhere to somewhere else. You know, the pay, the salary, isn't exactly where I needed it to be. I had conversations with people who we were started talking about where I might want to go. And there was one lady who asked me to create a pitch deck, and she really worked with me, and Lisa worked with me as well, to kind of create this five or six page deck that would explain who I am, what I want, very succinctly, but also in the most effective, strong way. All these things really help get towards, you know, I was applying for jobs, and I was going for some interviews, and I was in the interview, and it all helped me to sell myself better in that interview, but it also helped me to recognize, "Oh, I don't think I want to work here." You know, I'm going to be moving again to a company where it might not be the right fit for me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:36

Now, tell people, before we even get too far into this, you've very recently made a change. So tell people a little bit about what you will be doing, what you're doing right now.

Louise McNee 27:49

So I'm a commercial manager. I've just started working for a great company. It's actually a radio station here in Australia, so it's a completely different industry than I've worked in before. And commercial manager, the role kind of gets people confused sometimes, as people are not entirely sure exactly what that is or...

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:10

What does a commercial manager do? What is that even?

Louise McNee 28:13

Even in different companies in Australia, people use the job title in a different way. So the easiest way I can explain it is probably as an internal business advisor. So it's helping the business monitoring the financial and strategic implications of what they're doing in the company. You can imagine, and this probably happens to a lot of people, when you're in a company, you just want to run and you want to get things done, and you want to move, and there's not really much thought behind, "oh, is this going to work? Or what will happen if it doesn't work? You know, what kind of protections can we put in place?" So that's kind of my role, to help the company kind of make sure that they can move fast, but that we're not just going all in and, you know, it's risky, all over the place. And so at the end of last year, so I've only been in my current role for just under three months now. The end of last year, this opportunity came up, and it kind of excited me from a company perspective, as I've been a radio station, it's got that different vibe. And so I've got myself into a situation now where I've probably ticked off five of my main things, my inboxes of what a company, location, the culture needs to be for me. So the culture and the radio station is amazing.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:40

Here's what I'm curious about. You know, after going through all of that, what advice would you offer people that are in that same place that you've been, where maybe they've changed roles a couple of times and found themselves close to back in the same place, or maybe they're realizing for the first time that I really do want something more, and it is okay for me to want something different than where I'm at. What advice would you give those people?

Louise McNee 30:05

Yeah. I would say, you have to take the pressure off yourself. And it's easier said than done sometimes, but it's... We all put the pressure on ourselves. I think in a lot of situations, there's not other people putting the pressure on us, it's us putting the pressure on ourselves. So take the pressure off, but really think about I found... Because you have to think about not just the wrong but the people. You've got to think about everything. Because I remember when I did the, you know, what does your ideal day look like. I felt like I was being a bit spoiled by saying certain things. You know, I want to be able to wake up whatever time in the morning I want to wake up, and I want to be able to have a cup of tea in bed before I go to work, and really get down into those details. Because it's not those, for me, I find it's not those details as such that will make you, you know, having a cup of tea before you go to work in the morning, it's not going to make you figure out what's going on, but you find a pattern in what you actually really need in your day to get through the day in the most positive, fulfilled way. So, you know, for me, I needed to know what kind of people I wanted to be around. And so, yeah, I would say, take the pressure off, really get down into the details. And one of the things for me was kind of realizing that potentially, which is so different from where I was, when I've made... I come from making a career in everything. I've now realized that for me, career can't be everything.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:50

Interesting. That is... So, I would love to wrap up on that. What does it need to be in your particular life?

Louise McNee 32:00

So career for me, or my role, it's the, well, take the fundamentals out the way it's still going to pay me, to make me be able to live. It's going to have... I do need a bit of structure in my day, so it'll give me a bit of structure in my day. It will get me around people. I do need to be around people. I need to have those conversations. I'm not one who could... I love working from home every now and again on my own, but I really need that connection, but it's for me knowing, especially because I'm in the same role that I've been doing over the past couple of years, it gives me that comfort of I know what I'm doing. Yes, I'm going to get new challenges, but it's probably more challenges of how to influence people, or how to make people go a certain way or think about things differently, it gives me that stability to then experience and explore other parts of my life that are really important to me. So as I said, you know, I've got that social conscience, so I am going to pick up another mentee, so I'm gonna, if I've got the time, if I've got a role that's, you know, at the moment, thankfully, I can do, you know, not quite, but I can do nine to five. So that gives me so much time then to then spend time to help other people that at one point I thought would be good to go down as a career, but I don't think it is the right career for me, but I can still get it in my life now, because I've got the time and I've got the energy. From a learning perspective, I've always... I've had it on my list to be, I used to be fairly fluent in French, but haven't spoke French for about 15 years. We're going on holiday to France in September. So I now have a goal that I want to be fluent by September, so I have more time to speak. I'm now having lessons.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:52

That is very cool.

Louise McNee 33:53

I feel like I've got myself into a situation where I'm in a healthy state, and I've realized that I can get fulfillment through other areas, and not just through work. You know, I've got the time to spend with my husband and with my friends and be there, you know, I live in Australia. My family are in the UK, so I have to make a lot of effort to keep in touch with family and friends. But I'm in a position now where I can do that, and I can feel good about what I'm doing, and I'm getting what I need mentally, you know, I'm learning, I've got the comfort of work in a role that I feel comfortable doing. It's a new company, so obviously, I'm still in that stage of everything's new, and I'm kind of trying to settle in, but I feel like there's three or four different streams of my life now that I can work in, and my company is setting up a foundation. So social foundation. So you never know where that might go. I can hopefully spend a lot of time towards that as well. And then that links my, kind of, my desire to do good in the world, in my workplace.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:03

You know what, I absolutely love that, and I so appreciate you pointing that out, too. And that mindset change is huge, in terms of looking at, not just your career as being the thing, but having to enable all the parts of your life and having those work together. So I just want to say congratulations, first of all. Because I've only gotten to congratulate you by email so far, and this is amazing to be able to have the opportunity to talk to you about this. And I so appreciate you taking the time to share with everybody else. And I know that so many people are going to benefit from this. Nice work, by the way.

Louise McNee 35:44

Thank you. Yeah, as we said, it's only when you step back and realize how much work you've done that you can then go, "Ah, I've done this. Yeah, this was good."

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:00

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:52

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 36:58

I had learned over the previous 10 years that I could be whoever I wanted to be. I mean, I had worked in a new industry every couple of years, I had built companies from the ground up, and I kind of felt like there was no challenge I couldn't take on as long as it felt in alignment with the way that I wanted to work.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:19

Imagine reaching the pinnacle of your career field only to walk away and pursue something entirely new, something that sparks your curiosity and excites you, instead of simply following the expected next step of your career. Now imagine doing that, not once, not twice, but many times. Today's guest has done exactly that. She's gone from attorney to marketing director to head of business to Chief Operations Officer. She's even been a professional and certified coach, guiding others on their own career paths. Here's the kicker, she never had to start over. She was able to run towards roles that lit her up and evolve her career into iterations that fit her better and better every time. I think it's time to rethink what it means to have a successful career. Maybe the job that you once loved is starting to feel stale, yet you're still holding on. But what if outgrowing each role you take on and running towards something that excites you is actually the key to building a fulfilling career?

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:27

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it, and if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player, so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, until next week. Adios, I'm out.