583: Breaking Free from Corporate and Embracing Fulfillment on Your Own Terms

Roberta Dombrowski 00:01

I talked a lot about being versus doing. Our society really emphasizes the doing. Here's what I want to achieve, here's the impact. Do more with less. Like, all just profit, all of this stuff. And it doesn't think about, "Who do I want to be when I'm doing it?"

Introduction 00:23

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:48

Have you ever accomplished one of your goals or reached what maybe was the pinnacle of success only to feel overwhelmed and unfulfilled? Whether that was climbing up the corporate ladder, maybe even making it to the top, only to look around and wonder, is this it? Is this all there is? The truth is, there is such a thing as fulfilling work, but it's likely not where you've been looking. So if you've ever felt like a cog in a corporate machine and questioned whether there's more to life than just climbing higher, you're not going to want to miss this episode.

Roberta Dombrowski 01:23

I think a lot of people look at the executive level and they're like, "I want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to get there. I want to make an impact." But it's almost like you're a slave to the schedule. You are confined. It's a long hour. Yes, you have the title, but your life is pretty much that. It's hard to balance things outside of work. And so now my schedule is super flexible.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:49

That's Roberta Dombrowski, a self-described Job Hopper in the tech industry who navigated different roles and organizations at a remarkable pace. By the age of 29, she'd already climbed the ranks to become a VP of user research, wearing many hats along the way, including learning designer, product manager, user researcher. Although this looked pretty amazing from the outside, the rapid ascent took a significant physical and emotional toll on Roberta. Manifesting in panic attacks and other health issues, this made her question everything. Roberta, in this episode, opens up about the emotional toll of corporate success and the bold decision to step down from her executive role. You're going to hear how she transformed her experience into a powerful coaching approach, combining business acumen with mindfulness to help others navigate their own career crossroads. She, like myself and many others, have grappled with internal conflict between societal expectations and her own need for personal fulfillment. Ultimately, she made the courageous decision to leave her exact position and stare down the fears and uncertainties in redefining her path. Oh, by the way, you can assume from her track record that she's now a very established career coach with many accreditations, ACC, CPCC, and all the others. However, I should also mention, she's a part of our team and a career coach here at HTYC. Roberta understands the emotional rollercoaster our clients face because she's lived it herself. She blends traditional coaching methods with mindfulness practice, helping our clients connect with their bodies, their intuition, and guiding career decisions. Hey, one more thing before we jump into this discussion, you're actually not going to hear from me today. Samantha, on our team, who usually works behind the scenes on the podcast, got to talk to Roberta about her journey. So I'm going to let them take it away. Here's Roberta sharing where her career first began.

Roberta Dombrowski 03:47

It started when I was a kid. I've always been the person who, I was around adults, and I was a deep listener, and I would be asking questions, and I would be just really intentional and listening to like my dad or my family, anybody, aunts, uncles. And when I went to college, I was really the first person that went to college in my family. I got my first real taste of coaching. I wore a few different hats at the time. It was like a portfolio career before it was hip. I worked in Disability Services. I was an instruction leader, and then I was like a note-taker. And when I was doing supplemental instruction, it was this amazing program where I was teaching first-year student skills. I was mentoring, teaching, and then the manager at the time that I had was a coach, like she was a trained coach. It was a higher ed environment. And I would just go to her, it was my first time being away from family, and I would be just talking about my career and questions and all these questions that a 17-year-old has, and I never had someone hold that space for me. I was always holding space for other people. And so that always stuck with me. And then when I transitioned into corporate after I graduated, I actually decided to go into learning experience design. So I was creating virtual in-person training, and then I made a bunch of huge transitions after that too.

Samantha Martin 05:18

Just to briefly touch on your transitions from college, what industries or roles or hats did you wear for those who were trying to figure out what you wanted to do?

Roberta Dombrowski 05:30

So many. My first role out of college, I lived in Boston, I took a customer support success job. It was in the tech space. It was for a social media data analytics platform. So basically, like, it monitored what people said about brands on Twitter and YouTube and stuff like that. And so basically, I was answering help calls all day. It was usually, like, something went wrong, something broke, and I found myself getting really frustrated because I was like, "Why don't we just design the experience better than this so people don't get frustrated." And then I moved into learning experience design. So I was creating virtual in-person training, helping people to use the platform more effectively for the software platforms that I was working on. And then I transitioned to a company called the Predictive Index. And that was really like, that was like, I spent four years there. For those unfamiliar, it's like similar to MBTI. It's an assessment company. It focuses on, like, behavioral assessments, and I was on their learning team, so I designed virtual, in-person training. At the same time as I was in that role, I also got my Master's in Organizational Performance and Workplace Learning. And I was just like, all in on learning, of like, how can I help people learn, how can I help them learn more effectively about themselves. So that was a big transition. And then after that, four years there, I went into EdTech. I went to educational technology companies. I worked at a company called Pluralsight. I worked at a company called EdX, which is like a large open-source platform. I wore different hats in those roles. First I was a product manager, and then I decided to specialize in user research. Which is very similar to product management. And the reason why I switched to those is that it was still in the field of learning, but I wanted to have more of an impact in the work that I was doing.

Samantha Martin 07:35

Was there like a common thread that you were finding when you would decide to change from thing to thing?

Roberta Dombrowski 07:43

When I look back now, it is the values that was guiding me. Even if I look at my first role that I had, like, I was support, I wanted to be of service to someone. I found myself getting frustrated with help stuff, and I wanted to be more proactive. And so that led me to learning experience design. That one hit a lot of my goals, my needs because it was one of my core values is learning and teaching and supporting and mentoring. When I went to product, I was thinking about how can I make more of an impact in these organizations? Is it by designing training or is it by designing learning experiences in general? And I decided I wanted to, I tend to. I'm the type of person that, like, I push myself to see if I can do it or not. Like that gives me some excitement about things. And so I was like, yeah, like, I've worked with product managers. I could do product management for, like, a product that's learning focused. Why not? And when I got into it, I always described product management as my experience of it, it didn't fit quite right. Like I described the metaphor as a pair of shoes that's too tight, like, you're putting your feet into a pair of shoes that's too tight, like, you can work with it, you can wear it, but you're going to get blisters over time, there's going to be some bleeding, some wear and tear. And so when I was in product, I looked at my entire career, and I was like, "What did I find energizing from all of these roles? De-energizing from all of these roles?" And the thread that I saw was learning. Every single industry, every single role, I'm energized by helping people learn. And so that's when I decided to specialize in research and user research, more specifically, because I was doing it as a learning designer, and I was doing it in product, and it was like, I was meeting with customers, I was understanding what's their needs, what's their behaviors, what motivates them. And it just lit me up. It always did. And so any role position that I'm in, it has to have a balance of these things, like, what's energizing, having the heads down deep work, but then also, like... I call it like Meerkat syndrome, a little bit. Where I'm like, I like going heads down in my hole, but then I like popping up, and like being with other people too.

Samantha Martin 10:08

Well, we all know that you're a career coach now that seems like that really crosses over into what you enjoy working with people and then going behind the scenes to figure out things that work best for them and what you can bring to the next session. So I can definitely see what you're saying like and how that crosses over to being a career coach. But I wanted to go back before we jumped into that. And you had talked about energy and evaluating your own energy, and before we started, you were talking about being a mindfulness coach and how energy plays such a huge role. So I was just wanting you to touch on that a little bit, because it's so interesting, and I find that so many people don't recognize that, or haven't even really taken time to think about the different types of energy and the signs and things like that. So you can take it away.

Roberta Dombrowski 11:01

Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to. Most people don't, right? Society typically teaches us to prioritize analytical, especially in the United States– intuition, gut feel, feelings, emotions, are typically deprioritized. I've kind of fell into the camp because of my body just speaking to me. I was in a product management role. I had just accepted my first role in product management, and I was leaving the house to meet my team for the first time, and I was so in my head thinking about everything that could go wrong, like just anxiety, that I actually fell down the stairs and I broke my ankle. And so it was a really eye-opening moment for me because I was present, but I wasn't present. Like I was present and that I broke my ankle, but like I wasn't present in the experience. And that really kicked off my journey with mindfulness, because I actually couldn't move. So I had to have two surgeries for my ankle. I couldn't move for like, nine months. I was on bed rest, and I needed my energy to go somewhere. Like I couldn't just work all day. It was healing. And so I ended up taking some mindfulness classes, and it really helped me manage my anxiety. It was just like really restorative for me. And then over the years, I decided to go through teaching certification as well, through Brown University. And the way that I incorporate it into my coaching work now is I talk a lot about being versus doing. Our society really emphasizes the doing. Here's what I want to achieve, here's the impact. Do more with less. Like all just profit, all of this stuff, and it doesn't think about who do I want to be when I'm doing it. I have worn so many hats in my career. I can do anything. I know I can. Like, and that's not being cocky or anything, just like anybody can do anything that they choose to. But I always say, like, at what cost? And it's all about how we're being. Do you want to have that high-power executive role, have an impact, but then also be completely burned out and have no personal time and just exhausted? That's okay. That's if you want to do that. That's your choice. And so that's how, when I work with people, I introduce them to, like being versus doing modes. I do energy audits with them too. So I actually have them track their energy throughout the day, especially if they're in leadership or collaborative roles where they actually, like, keep a journal of here's what my energy is saying, like, what's my body feeling versus what am I cognitively thinking. So that they can start to tap into that muscle a little bit more. Because most of the time, we kind of override it as we go throughout our day like some people don't go for walks, some people don't take breaks for lunch. And so it's important.

Samantha Martin 13:59

That's so interesting. So you said when you fell down the stairs and broke your ankle, you were going to meet a team. Was that a new role you were starting?

Roberta Dombrowski 14:08

It was, yeah.

Samantha Martin 14:10

How did you last or how did that change that role for you?

Roberta Dombrowski 14:17

Yeah, so it was the product management role. I was in there for about a little over a year. It was tough. So I was fully remote while my entire team was in the office because this was before covid. So, there was a disconnect from the team. I was kind of on the back foot the whole time. It was hard to connect with them. It was hard for me to step into the role. I had imposter syndrome while I was in the role too. That's part of, I think, why I fell down the stairs. It was like the what ifs– what are they gonna think of me? I want to do this amazing. Like, all this talk track and narrative that I had for myself. So, yeah.

Samantha Martin 14:55

So what was your last role before you decided to pivot fully into career coaching? Can you tell me about that journey of deciding that you wanted to change to career coaching full-time?

Roberta Dombrowski 15:12

Yeah. I was a VP of research at a research company, actually. So I was researching how people do research. I was the top of my field. I was the top of my industry. It's actually very hard to find full-time VP level research roles. I've probably seen a few of them since then. And so yeah, I was in the career I could have asked for, everything on paper looked great, and when I had signed that executive-level role, I negotiated a part of my contract that I wanted an executive coach. I needed an executive coach. And the reason that I do that is that I tell people always who's on your executive team. So as leaders, whether you're an individual contributor, you're a manager, whatever it is, you have an executive team. It could be your partner if you're married, it could be friends, family, it could be your therapist, it could be a coach, but that's your team that you're surrounding yourself with that's going to help you hit your goals. And so that's what I was doing when I took on that leadership role, I was like, "I need my team if I'm going to be able to step into this level and have the type of impact that I want to." As soon as I started working with her, I realized really quickly, like, really quickly, that one, the role that I was in wasn't the right fit, and two, that I loved the work that we were doing together, that I was just like, even when I was interviewing for that role, they were asking me, like, why I loved it, and part of it was because I would have the opportunity to coach other people. Because I knew at this point in my time, in my career, I said with such confidence, like, I was born to be a coach. I know this. If you look at my entire path, nothing else, it just led to that. And so as I started to work with my own coach, I loved the work we were doing. And so I was like, all right, I had this really pivotal moment with my husband where I was just like, this job is not working, like, it's not giving me energy. Like, what I really want to do is coaching, but I'm going to do it when I retire. And my husband's like, props to him, why married him, he's like, "Why when you retire? Like, you're 29. What are you talking?" And I was like, "What?" But that was my inner critic. That was my saboteur. It's like, you can't have it at this moment. That was the talk track. And so he made me second guess that. And I was like, "Yeah, you're right. I guess I have to do it now." And that just flipped everything for me. Everything that I had thought about doing in the future, that I really would love, I was like, I'm gonna do it now. Why would I wait?

Samantha Martin 18:01

Right. That was going to be my next question before you mentioned your husband but now is about your support system and their reaction to that. Since you said like you were at the top of your game, and you were, you know, had this high level at a pretty young age, you had made it, and from the outside, it looked probably like everything you know you could ever hope for. So what were the reactions like when you were like, "Eh. Now I'm gonna go coach."?

Roberta Dombrowski 18:29

My husband, very supportive. My parents, no. My mom still thinks I'm insane for what I've done. She's like, you blew up your life. Because what ended up happening, really, over the last few years is I burned down almost every element of my life and rebuilt it in the way that I want it to be, rather than expectations of other people. The fellow leaders that I worked with who were, like, executive level, they thought I was crazy, but they thought they knew me, they're like, "Yeah, this makes sense. I would never do that, but like, it makes sense for you." So it was definitely mixed, like, my best friends so supportive, or, like, "Of course, Roberta." So usually I find that the people that really know you will see how it aligns, and they're very supportive. And then the people that had the most pushback were my parents, and it's because they have hopes and dreams. They want to see me or be successful and not blow up my life.

Samantha Martin 19:26

So that, as you know, the change from what you've always known and aimed for in a career to something you've realized fits you better can be like a very hard decision to make with a lot of emotions, baggage, a lot of things. So what were you feeling during that transition?

Roberta Dombrowski 19:52

I initially felt very confident in my decision. Once I make a decision, I'm pretty committed to it. I think, a few months after the decision was made, and I started to transition into coaching, and all of that, is when the fears kind of crept in. It's like, the second-guessing of, like, "What have I done?" But then I have an amazing session with the client, and I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm doing, like, my purpose, what I should be doing." The fears typically ended coming up on the business side of coaching. I don't care about promoting myself. I want to be a true coach, a master coach, that's what I'm working towards, is just like, how can I be of service. So that I'm always confident about when I'm making the decision to switch and follow it. It's part of like, you're never gonna be able to control everything 100% but it's like, how can you set yourself up for success towards the vision that you're seeing? And I'm someone who I will regret not going for it and not believing in myself 100%. So that always kind of would push me towards it more and more.

Samantha Martin 21:05

So now you've been a coach for quite some time. How do you find, like your day-to-day, I guess, your life compared to when you were, you know, at the top of your game in research?

Roberta Dombrowski 21:21

It's so much more flexible. I describe it as having true freedom. I think a lot of people look at the executive level and they're like, "I want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to get there. I want to make an impact." But it's almost like you're a slave to the schedule. You are confined. You are, it's long hours, yes, you have the title, but your life is pretty much that. It's hard to balance things outside of work, and so now my schedule is super flexible. Like I went to Pilates today, like, Wednesday Pilates are my favorite. Like, I have more work-life balance. I could pick my hours. I get to pick my clients that I get to work with. It's true freedom. Like, it's why I have chosen this path, is so that I can live in a way that is fulfilling to myself. And it's not either or, like, how do I have this great job? Or like, I need to be taking care of myself, but it's yes and yes, I can meet with clients and do something I love and like, still take care of my body and have time for myself and sleep and not hustle all the time.

Samantha Martin 22:32

Yeah. Now be up at 4 am to get a workout in before you go to work. Yeah. It reminds me of that, oh gosh, I'm gonna butcher it, but that story about a man on an island who's fishing on a boat, and a businessman approaches him and he's like, "Oh, like, we could really expand this operation, and you could do all these things and get all these other fishermen under you, and like, we could have all these franchises, and you can make all this money, and it comes around to, and then you could retire a rich man." And he's like, "And then I'd be a rich man, and I'd retire to do the exact same thing I'm doing right now, just sitting in this boat and fishing." It's kind of reflecting on, you know, pulling out of the hustle and looking at life and being like, "There's got to be more. What am I really aiming towards? And I could have it right now."

Roberta Dombrowski 23:31

Yes, exactly. Like one of the things I love so much about mindfulness is it's all about paying attention to the present moment. What's coming up for you? And so, like, I'm very tuned into those moments when I'm like, "This is it. I feel at peace." Like, in my free time, I do gardening. I'm like, on the water, I am outside, I'm with clients, and it's like, I yearn for those sorts of things. I think that one thing that I realized when I was in an executive role too, is a lot of people have this mental model that like, work has to be hard. If it's not hard, it's not work. When I worked with my executive coach, be like, flip that on its head. Like, what? Like, that's a bias that I had because of how I grew up. But work doesn't have to be hard, it can be useful. And so that's what really this phase of my life is about, it's like, how can I be useful and just embrace what is and live in my zone of genius? And that's it, and it's amazing.

Samantha Martin 24:35

Yeah. Another thing I wanted to touch on that we talked about before we hopped on here was when your body is sending you signals of when things are not right. And a lot of times that happens before you realize that something's wrong or you need to change. And I know you said that you had a few examples of that throughout your career. So do you want to talk a little about that?

Roberta Dombrowski 24:58

Yeah, I'd say that the big one was the ankle and falling down the stairs, but before I actually fell down the stairs, I was waking up in the middle of the night having panic attacks. And so that's when I was just interviewing for the role. And I didn't think about it. I was just like, "Oh, I'm stressed out. I'm having a panic attack." I didn't like connect it to the job that I was interviewing for until I fell down the stairs and broke my ankle. Over the years, I've had two experiences where I've had panic attacks. Luckily, I noticed it now. I notice it before it gets that strong. Usually for me, it's like feeling in the pit of my stomach. I notice my back hurting, my shoulders hurting. It's like where I carry tension, maybe a heart racing, maybe it's dreading going to a specific meeting. I notice, like, the way beginning stages, so that it doesn't build up to that point yet. And really, our bodies recognize how we're feeling before we actually emotionally process it. So it's really about like, I love somatic work and being able to tune into that because what we resist generally persists, and it's going to come out in other ways and usually stronger.

Samantha Martin 26:15

Yeah, and we work with a lot of people who realize after the fact that their body was something, and some that is like the straw that broke the camel's back because huge things will happen, like a broken ankle. But for anyone that is starting to realize that they're in that place, what advice would you give someone who feels like something doesn't feel right?

Roberta Dombrowski 26:42

Yeah, usually what I hear common is, "Oh, I feel tired. I'm exhausted, I'm burned out, I'm stressed." Those are like the big ones. And so usually what I recommend is time. Take your PTO, your time, integrate little breaks throughout your days as much as you can, get up from your desk, stretch, go for a walk in the middle of the day, eat away from your computer, those will give you, like, mini breaks for yourself. And then, long term, it's time to start thinking about, what is your vision, what's your transition plan? I always say, reflect on your career and your previous roles, what made you choose those paths. And then also start to think about, like, what's working, what's not working within your current environment. There's something that's causing, like, the physical ailments or the end low energy, whatever it might be, and usually, it requires actually slowing down rather than speeding up a lot of people because it's discomfort, right? It feels really uncomfortable to slow down and listen to what your body is telling you. Trust me, I couldn't walk for months like it's really uncomfortable. But in that discomfort, when you start to sit in it and listen to it, is when the wisdom comes out and you will know, you will start to see the signals. When you take the breaks, you will see your body, your nervous system, start to return to normal.

Samantha Martin 28:05

I'm just now recognizing that. So I had my second daughter last year, and when she was eight days old, I broke my foot. You know, I was just... this is the worst timing. This is awful. I had a toddler too that I needed to be taking care of, but people pitched in and helped out, obviously, I'm lucky for that, but it also just made me take a break that I wouldn't have taken that I really needed in that time. So I was on the couch, elevating my foot, but I was also, you know, like bonding with my daughter. It ended up, now my foot's all good, so it ended up really being a positive and a break that I needed. So now that you're saying this thing, that was kind of a sign that you're not going to slow down unless I make you slow down.

Roberta Dombrowski 29:06

Force. Yeah, your body will force you to slow down. Absolutely.

Samantha Martin 29:11

Yeah, very interesting reflection that I've had just from this conversation. So what would you say is your favorite thing about being a coach?

Roberta Dombrowski 29:24

Holding space for people, being able to hold their... They tell us, like, what their hopes, their dreams, their vision is, so being able to hold that for them and ground them in that and help them come to the answers for themselves. Like, I'm holding space. I always say with my clients that they're the expert in their lived experience, and I'm bringing my expertise in coaching, and together, we're helping them hit their goals. That is my favorite thing in the world. It's like the aha moments, the insights, the things they forgot about themselves, really, a lot of the time, they're coming home to their true intuition, their true vision, what they're hoping for, and being able to be a partner with them on their journey is really, really beautiful.

Samantha Martin 30:12

Yeah, we kind of touched on this a little bit, but you are just a great example of someone who had, "made it", but then really pivoted, and are loving your career even more than you could have imagined, and you were not at the place that you had been aiming towards for many, many years. So there's a lot of people that we work with that are, you know, lawyers or doctors or some type of position that they've worked very, very hard for, for many, many years, and they're still feeling something is not right. So what would you say helped you in that time to make that decision to step away?

Roberta Dombrowski 30:58

I always ask myself the question, "Am I running towards something or running away from something?" And that's usually when I know the answer. It comes up pretty quick. And it takes pausing and really getting vulnerable with yourself, of like, why is this not working right now. If I'm running away from something, that's usually a fear, that's usually the wrong motivation. When I answer, I'm running towards something, and here's what I want, I want more freedom, I want more fulfillment, I want this, I want that, I want to be able to serve people, I want to be of service, that's the sign that I'm making the right choice that it's values-driven. And so when I'm working with clients, I ask them the same question, are you running to/from? If they tell me that they're running from the career, they're running from the job, the environment because of a poor boss, a poor manager, role, not feeling appreciated, that's a sign. Then it's something else, typically, or it's something we can dig in more. We can dig a little bit more into. Usually, when they're saying, "I'm running towards this, this, this, this." I'm like, "All right, let's make it happen." And it takes being grounded and teasing apart. And there's an analytical part, there's a intuitive body part, sensation, all of that. And also, when I think about ease and running towards I actually, when I worked with, I've worked with a business coach before, too, she talked a lot about like, push versus pull energy. So running towards something sometimes could be like pushing, Like when I was a VP, when I was climbing the letter, I was push, push, push, push. I'm great at executing pushing override. I was overriding my body a lot of the times. What I want, and what I work with clients on is how can you pull yourself like you're pulling something towards you energetically, rather than pushing. Because pushing expends a lot of energy, but when you pull something towards you, it's more useful plus helpful.

Samantha Martin 33:11

It's interesting. So our podcast, obviously, has a lot of people who are wanting to make a change or working on a change, and it's helpful for them to hear about other people that you've worked with who have done the same. So I know you already talked about the things that you really enjoy in career coaching, but where do you find that people struggle the most when they are wanting to make a change?

Roberta Dombrowski 33:37

When I work with clients, typically, the first thing that they come to me with is, I want someone to review my resume, I want my materials updated and stuff like that. And so I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, let's slow down. Where are you actually aiming to go?" So that's usually like a first struggle is they want to go a million miles an hour, they're already there. And I work a lot with like, let's intentionally slow down and create the vision of where you want to go. So that's one piece. When I also work with clients, there's a lot of thoughts, feelings, mindset, imposter syndrome, things that come up. It's a lot of second-guessing if somebody is transitioning career fields, what are others going to think? Am I gonna be good enough? What's the best way to do this? So that's another theme. Once they align and they have, like, clarity about where they want to go next, typically, a big next bump is like positioning and networking. They like to forget that they've been humans their whole life and have interacted with people because there's a vulnerability to it. When you start to go out and network with people, you're basically like, you're throwing out your intention to the universe and what you're hoping for, and if it gets turned down, there's a lot of risk involved. You start to question yourself, and so people get a little bit fearful or scared or nervous when they start to do that. So I really love like, when I work with career transitioners, people are pivoting careers. It's really a journey. It's an arc. And there's ups and downs at each stage, and it varies for each person too. Some of my favorite moments are when I'm working with someone at the beginning, and I dig deep into like, what's your relationship to work. Because that brings a lot of things. Like, how do you define success? Because that's going to influence things and values and all of that too.

Samantha Martin 35:33

Yeah. What would you say to someone who's like, "Yes, that's how I want to be living life but that wouldn't work for me because of X, Y, and Z, or I got into this career field, and there's no way."?

Roberta Dombrowski 35:47

Usually, I flip the question back, and I say, "Why? Who says that? Why is it not possible?" And then usually they start to ramble off these, what I call limiting beliefs, that are there for a reason. And so I will dig into that with them, and start to poke them a little bit and be like, "Oh, well, why is that? Why is that?" It's not going to change immediately, but usually, I call these like saboteurs or inner critics. It's parts of their personality, parts of behaviors, mindsets that come up. And so usually you can't say, "don't think that way", because then it's just going to keep coming up louder. And so usually I acknowledge it. I'm like, "Why? What's the voice?" I will start to identify it with them. And then if they start to do more visioning and stuff like that, we'll say, "How can we honor this voice and listen to what it has to say?" Usually, it's a protection mechanism of, "Oh, I can't do this because I need to provide for my family, or I need to do XYZ." And so it's like, all right, valid point. How can we acknowledge it and move forward? And then, usually, it's little experiments to try and prove that wrong, or find evidence of why that narrative or way of being actually can be tested and kind of negotiated with. Like it's the same thing that I've done with myself. That was what the story that I had with my husband is, I can only do coaching when I retire. And he did that. He pokes like, "Wait, what?" We all have thoughts like that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:30

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:22

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 4 38:27

And now it's about what works for me in this part of my life, and I only have eight more years till my kids go to college. What do I want the next eight years to look like?

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:37

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep and you get it automatically. Even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week, adios. I'm out.