585: Discovering Career Happiness After Leaving a Toxic Job

Emily 00:01

I was like, it's just... I felt like I had no place to go. I think I had, like, some sunken cost fallacy in there where I was like, I'm just here, and I've spent so much time doing this that what else am I going to do?

Introduction 00:20

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:43

There are countless stories we tell ourselves to stay stuck in a job that's no longer serving us. Maybe you're convinced you've invested too much time at an organization to just walk away, or that you'd be heartless to abandon your team and that they'd never forgive you because they need you there. It can be really tough to challenge your own logic. But what if staying is costing you much more than what you realize?

Emily 01:12

You're sacrificing so much of yourself, and you're in these toxic places, and you don't see it, and other people just take advantage of it, like, I would never want to be in that position again.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:21

That's Emily. When she first came to us, she was pretty trapped. She was in an unhealthy work environment, unsure of what her next step should be, and at the time, she was a paralegal and swore she had never, ever returned to the legal field. Fast forward to today, and Emily's been in a new role for over two years, and she's here now to share how finding a healthier organization in a more fulfilling role has completely transformed her life. But here's the twist, after doing all the hard work to figure out what kind of role would fit her best, she found the perfect opportunity that she has loved for those last two years in, you guessed it, the legal field. I'm gonna let Emily explain how she discovered it wasn't about the industry that was making her miserable, like, she had really originally thought at all. Here she is discussing her situation when she reached out to our team three years ago,

Emily 02:16

I had been in my role, I'd started there in 2013 and I kind of accidentally fell into it. And so it wasn't necessarily something I was looking to do, but I happened to be, like, really good at it. And we were dealing with special needs, population, and helping them, as in the legal sense of things. So I really enjoyed it, and I thought it was very fulfilling that the office itself was just, it was chaotic. And now I call it toxic. I think I was in it at the time, and didn't really see it, and I just, I was crying every day, multiple times a day, like, losing weight, my hair was literally falling out. And I was like, my husband was like, "What are you doing? Like, you need to like..." And I was like, "Well, who's gonna do it, if I'm not the one to do it? They don't have anyone who, like, knows how to do it." And he was like, "I just... We need to do something."

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:07

Yeah, that's really interesting, too. So you were in the thick of it, and it sounds like at that time, you didn't even have the language, it sounds like. Now you'd call it toxic, but didn't even necessarily have the language to know how to refer to the environment at that particular time as you're in the thick of it. And so I think the thing that's really interesting that you said is, when your husband is saying, "You need to do something about this. You need to go," and your response as you're in the thick of it was, "No, there's nobody else like to do this." I think that's really common. So, here's what I'm curious about now, now that we jump several years ahead, and now that you're in a totally different environment, different situation, even different role, how do you think about that now? How do you think about this whole, "I have to be there because I'm needed" type of situation?

Emily 04:03

Now I look at it like I feel like I was like, a totally different mindset at that time because now in my position, it's not so much like I know that there are people if I'm not there, like, they can handle it, and so I don't worry about it. Also feel personally, I don't ever want to go back to a place where I'm putting someone above myself who is not... I saw a quote a long time ago, and it said, "Your job will have posted before your obituaries are posted." And I always think about that now because I'm like, it's not true for everybody, of course, but it's so true that you're sacrificing so much of yourself, and you're in these toxic places, and you don't see it, and other people just take advantage of it, like, I would never want to be in that position again where I felt like I wasn't appreciated, or like everything was like, the negative of what I was doing, and nothing like, "Oh, that was a great job", you know. And so, yeah, that's just, it feels like another lifetime sometimes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:04

I've heard that a lot, where people describe it like that was a lifetime ago. I can't even imagine, you know, I can't even fully fathom it. It just feels like a totally different place at this point. But what do you think feels the most different? What is making it feel night and day difference now versus then?

Emily 05:24

Before I would have, like the quote, Sunday scaries, those would happen Friday afternoon for me. Like, I was already thinking about Monday. And it's just... I don't ever feel that anymore. I feel like I'm confident in that. If I need to do something, I can go to them and be like, "No, like, I need to do this. And you'll find a way." Where before, that would have been like, I would never do that. Like I was like, almost like walking on eggshells. And now it's like I learned how to have that confidence in myself to not be put in that position, or like to do something about it when I am there, you know, to recognize the situation.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:05

Can I read you something that you sent us a long time ago? One of the questions we had asked you forever ago, you had sent us some information about what you were struggling with at the time, and at that point in time, you said, finding the strength and confidence to leave my current role without feeling guilty. And, yeah, that's exactly what you wrote. And, you know? And I thought that's really interesting too, because one of the other things that you had said later on, let me see if I can find it here, you said, one of the biggest differences for you is now having the strength and confidence in your new situation. So I thought that was so interesting. Why do you think that was such a big thing for you at that particular time?

Emily 06:56

I've always been, like, I'm not someone who wants to, like, have attention on me. I don't want to talk about myself, like, I just want to get up and do my job and, like, help who I'm supposed to help, like, just kind of be there. And so I felt in being like this people pleaser, like a yes woman doing all of that, I think that it took away a lot of my strength and my confidence. Because when I was in the thick of my old job, I felt so scared to just assert myself, or if I thought there was something that could be better, I just didn't have it to go there and be like, "This is wrong." Like they had hired a new office manager about six months before I left, and he was terrible, like, really awful. And I tried, you know, we had a pretty close relationship, because as a person, she was a really great person. And so I went to her and I said, "Hey, I have some concerns, you know, and like, I want to voice them to you because I know I'm not the only one." And it was like, well, it was reversed to where it was like, "Well, you're not being cooperative and like, you're not being a team player, like you're being too harsh or this or that." And so I think that that takes away because then I'm like, "Oh, maybe I am wrong. Like, maybe I don't know what I'm doing, or I don't know what I'm talking about. Like, if he's the manager, you know, he obviously knows what's going on." And so I really wanted to, like, bring that back because I knew it was bleeding out into the rest of my life. And I'll never forget my friends came up for my birthday, and within 24 hours, they were like, "What is wrong with you? Like, you're jumpy and you're anxious and you're like, you're so worried about everybody else and if they're okay, and what's going on." And I was like, "I just think it's this, and I don't know." And so, yeah, it was just I felt like I really wanted to win that back for myself and for, like, my family, since I was not myself.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:50

Yeah, so even your friends could see that this had eroded into a situation where you were no longer yourself, no longer operating this yourself.

Emily 09:00

And they knew, like, what kind of chaotic situation it was. And they've been telling me for a long time, just put your notice in. I actually put my notice, we call it my two year notice. Because I put my notice in, and then about six months later was that, and I just couldn't leave. They wouldn't find someone. And of course, I felt guilty, so I never left. And then CoVid hit, and then I stayed for another, like, year and a half. And so we call it my two year notice.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:30

What finally allowed you to move past the guilt that you were feeling and leave?

Emily 09:37

I had a co-worker and she... I give her a lot of credit, like, with me, like she really gave me some of a little bit of a backbone from my last little while there because she was very, like, she was confident, she was tough, and she would tell you if she thought something worked better. She had a saying, you know, "If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you." And that was like her thing. She did not get along with this new manager, and she would butt heads a lot with the owner. And she came in one day and tried to log into her computer, and she was locked out of her computer, and she couldn't figure out why, and that's how she found out she was getting fired. I was like, wow, like that. She's been there for six years, she was, you know, sometimes she was tough, but, you know, she got her work done and she was good at her job, and the clients loved her. And so to find out that that was like, how they were going to end her time there, and just like, her stuff was in a box and she couldn't get on the computer, and that's how she finds out, it just really cemented in for me that if I quit today, and in six months, are they really going to still be thinking about me? I don't know if it's going to affect them as like, are they thinking about it as much as I am? And that really encouraged me to be like, okay, like, I'm done. And I was also when I started listening to the podcast, and when I started talking to my husband about it and like, "Should I do it?" And he was like, "I'm okay with you doing and I'm all for it, but I want you to promise me that you'll quit your office, like, either before, like, right after you start it." He's like, "That's my only request." And I was like, I can do that now. Like, it really was, like, a switch for me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:21

Kudos to you. Because I think that's really incredible. It's just so hard, like, where you're going from where you're feeling guilty, like you're going to leave them in this situation that is unrecoverable, all the way to the other side, where you're making massive steps forward and at the same time leaving. It's just not easy. There's no way around it, right?

Emily 11:46

And I'm someone who is very comfortable with how things are. I'm very like, I don't do change well. I'm like, I need a really, really good reason if you want to change things up on me. Like, I'm very comfortable when I get comfortable. And so it was a really big... All of it at once was, like, a really big step, but well worth it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:10

Well, so let's talk about that then. I'm interested because you decided to leave, and then you started doing this work for yourself on deciding what would be next and making a more intentional change. And I think to your point, that's really hard, especially when, if you're the type of person whose tendency is to be, you know, staying in that comfortable type of situation. So what did that look like for you at first, and what did you find worked for you as we began to think differently about what you wanted and what would create a better situation for you?

Emily 12:43

It's interesting at first because it really... The few, like, we did the strengths test at first, and it really like, I was like, I'm pretty like, was not surprised at my StrengthsFinder results, but it just makes you think. And I worked with Alistair, and he started just asking me, like, the most basic questions. And I was like, "I don't know." And I started thinking about it, and I started getting a little panicky because I was like, I don't... What am I doing? What am I supposed to do? And I swore I was never going to work in a legal office again because that's not for me. Clearly, it's not for me, because I can't handle it. So it really made me kind of break through that initial, I think, I put myself into this mold or a box of what was expected of me, and just breaking it down to the basics and being like, "What are you looking for? What finds like, what are you going to be fulfilled out and what do you think that is?" It really opened it up to more like, okay, like, I could think differently about this.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:44

I think that's really interesting too because, like, you talked about breaking it down to the basics, right? And at the same time you were, it's not like freaking out a little bit, I don't know if that's the way to put it, but like, freaking out a little bit because it's like, "I don't know. I don't know what I want" for these seemingly basic types of questions. And I think those things do tend to coexist too, especially if we haven't thought about what we actually want or need in that way before. It can be a bit of a struggle. And, I mean, it can be exciting too, but it also can be hard. You also talked about the transition, like, as you're going and you're working through this how some parts were hard for you, and you were breaking it down to basics. Do you remember what worked for you, or anything in particular that stood out, whereas, like, yeah, "It got me this realization."?

Emily 14:48

Yeah, actually. I was talking about my old office, and now it was a lot of work, and they always would... things that they would always use to kind of describe me as is that I was sensitive and I was overwhelmed. And what was the other? Emotional was probably one of them. Like, I do. I'm very much like, I feel my emotions. And I tend to, like, maybe overthink a little bit. But all it's all, you know, being overwhelmed. I was like, "I don't want, like, these are my worries about a new career, like, I don't want to feel overwhelmed. I don't want to feel like I'm too sensitive, or this or that." And he was like, "That's just... Did you ever think that maybe that's just like how they responded to, like, their own flaws, or what was going on in the office? Like, you should rethink it to how, like, you being overwhelmed, or how you being sensitive is a strength for you." You know, I'm trying to remember my... I know I think empathizer might have been, like, one of my top strengths and, like, includer. And so he was like, "How do you use those to your advantage? That's a great thing. Being emotional and, like, being open with people is a good thing. Like, don't let them take that and make it a negative thing about yourself." And the overwhelm, like, I was doing the work of two to three paralegals at the time, and so he was, like, "Just take it and, like, think about the context that they're saying it in. And, like, why they're saying it. And then think about it again, and then you might feel differently about it." And so I think it was really helpful to see what people might think negative and how to use that tangibly.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:33

Yeah, it's all feedback, right? Like it can still be useful. And to your point, like, being able to turn it around and say, "Well, what's causing them to say this?" And still being able to pull useful pieces out of it for yourself. I think that is... Okay, so I'm curious on this because you're now a parent, and everything else, like, this has been something I've been trying to figure out for a long time– how I teach that to my kids. Because I think that's one of the most underrated skills, not just for kids, but for everybody, to being able to filter feedback, because we get feedback from so many different sources, and most of it just doesn't matter that much, or most of it might have a kernel of usefulness, like, what you were talking about. Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious, what ended up helping you start to look at it in a different way? Was it just having somebody else turn it around for you? Or what have you found works?

Emily 17:31

No. I think it was just hearing it from a stranger. Because, you know, like, my husband's great, my family's great, and they had been telling me, like, "You need to do this", and my husband would hear me telling my coworkers, "Hey, maybe you should look at something. You deserve something else. And there's probably other stuff out there. You don't..." And he's like, "Why aren't you telling that to yourself?" And I was, "Well, you have to tell me that, you know." And so I think hearing it from a third party again is, like, this switch, and you're like, "Maybe, like, it's not me." I think I am someone who takes on a lot of, like, other people's feelings onto myself and turns them into mine. And so it just was a way, like you said, to like, kind of, filter how things were coming in, and to kind of see it in a new light, and to go back. He had also... I said that I never wanted to work in legal again. And he said, "Have you ever considered that it's not the legal work you hate, it's your office that you hate?" And I was like, "Well, I guess, but I guess I never split the two." And so I think that that was really eye opening too, because he had said, "You have so many skills and you have so much experience. Let's not discount it right away." And so because I had, I completely discounted, I was like, "Nope. Don't even want to look at it." And so I'm glad that he helped me work through this initial, "Nope, never again" kind of feeling.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:53

I think it's really interesting to me because we get so many people that we get to talk to that come in saying, "Look, I'm in legal, I'm in marketing. I'm in..." whatever, insert your occupation or industry or profession or whatever, and then, like, "I just need to be done with marketing. Or I just need to be done with legal." But then, to your point earlier, you said, "Well, I really was focused on breaking it down to the basics of what I need." And sometimes being able to break it down to the basics, like, you're talking about, allows you to be able to start to separate out and tease out, almost like, you're undoing a big thing of yarn, and starting to see, like, "where does everything go?" So then that allowed you, in your case it sounds like, to realize, "Well, maybe it's not legal. Well, if so, then what is really important?" So that leads me to a question, like, what specific aspects of your life did you want your new career to support? Because you were breaking it down to the basics, and I'm curious what you learned there.

Emily 19:52

Well, a work life balance was huge for me because I had none. You know, I got calls on weekends. I got calls after work. I got a call, like, after a day of brunching one day, and I was like, "why am I even answering this call?" But I have to answer it, you know. And so it was really important for me to, like, find a place that would support that, and to just not look at me as, like, just an employee, but like, as a person, you know. And I know, like so many people look for that. And I think that, like, it's out there, you know. And I think it was important to find someone who would understand, like, if something came up, or if you wanted to take a day off just because you wanted to take a day off. And that was, like, nothing that, like, I got before. Like, I wanted to be able to wake up and not have this, like, fear. You know, like I said, Friday afternoon, I don't want to think about Monday already. And so that was really important. And to just find something that was, like, fulfilling and made me happy, and that was probably, at the time, was probably what I was looking for. Now, I think, now that I have work life balance, it's like, wow, that's amazing. Like, it wasn't really something like I thought about, and now that you experience it, it's like, wow. But it's not like, you don't even realize it's a thing until it's a thing. But just something that I just wanted to feel like I was making a difference, and I felt like parts of my role I did have that, which was why it was so hard for me to go.

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:20

Well, let me ask you a different question. What led you then from paralegal to legal secretary? First of all, for everybody else's benefit, share with me what a legal secretary is, and then tell me a little bit about like, how you eventually got to that?

Emily 21:42

So for a legal secretary, in my role, it's mainly like you're communicating with the courts, you're coordinating between the attorneys and, you know, our clients, and then the courts, making sure the hearings, calendaring. Actually, I work for state hospital system. And so it's just like, it's a lot of moving parts. And so they kind of keep them on the railings, you know, keep them going... And so that transitioned me into a legal analyst, which is, it's similar but it's a little more involved as far as petition preparing and things like that. So, but it was great. Like it's just the paralegal. It was technically considered a step down from being a paralegal. I'd done it for eight years, but it was something I was willing to do. And I was like, I have the skills for this, and I know I think if I can get in, I think that there is room for promotion. And so that was my mindset as, like, patience. Like I didn't feel, at first, I think I really felt like I needed to find the thing that was going to be the thing forever, and then there was a switch. And working through the boot camp that I was like, you know, maybe I should just give it a go, and maybe there's more opportunities, like, there's promotions. That's why they call them promotions. And so taking that stress off of myself, I think, made it a little bit more like, "I will apply, and then I'll apply for this promotion. If I don't get it, don't get it. But there's always, like, more opportunities in the future."

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:18

So you came into this thinking, "I must find the thing for the rest of my life" like that whole, yeah, no pressure in that whatsoever, right?

Emily 23:27

No pressure on yourself.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:29

So then it sounds like at some point, you shifted to this more iterative type of thinking where you're like, "Hey, I can continue to make changes. Do you remember what caused you to start to think differently?"

Emily 23:43

I think it was just... It's hard to, like, put into words, really, I'd been so focused on just getting through the day for so many years, and just like getting through the work day without doing something wrong or like having someone yell at me. And so I was so in it that I can't see the forest for the trees. And so, in just one day, I think it was when I started listening to the podcast, and then my husband is like, bless him. He is just so like, he listens to me blabber, and he like, will give his advice when he thinks it's important. And he was very patient with me as I was going through these like moments and like meltdowns of, "what am I gonna do? I can't go, but I should go." And then he just was like, "Just do it, and something will happen. And if it's not what you think it is, then you can do something else." And so, yeah, I think just working through the bootcamp and recognizing that, like, things don't have to be concrete, like there's a flow and there's like the ebbs and the flows, and you'll find that, like, it will happen for you the way it's supposed to happen.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:56

Yeah, completely. And I know that this isn't true for all state or government types of roles, but some of those tend to have pretty strict interview processes. And I'm curious what this one was like for you, how you experienced it, and what did you find helped during the interview process?

Emily 25:17

Well, I was gonna say the interview prep was one of the biggest things for me.

Emily 25:23

I don't do speaking well. I get very nervous. And I start bumbling. And I don't answer the question that I'm asked. I give way too much information, and then I don't answer anything, you know. And so working through that interview prep, I think there was a set of like, basic questions that helped me to start thinking through, like, "Okay, what if they... How am I going to answer this? And like, how am I going to present myself in what I know, and not necessarily my public speaking flaws?" And I think I even did a mock interview with Alistair, and I was like, it was so terrifying. And he's like, "See, you're just talking. Like, you're just..." But having, like, being able to, like, think that through beforehand, and then to have to someone to talk about it with, was huge and it helps me in my second interview too, that I eventually did. And you're on a panel, and like you said, they're very technical and how they do it, and so it was really good to have that practice of, like, points and here's how to take your skills, and not just your hard skills, but your soft skills, kind of like we were talking about earlier. Here's how to make it applicable to these questions that they're probably going to ask you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:23

In what way?

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:38

Yeah, so it sounds like the mock interview, as well as, how to think about these different types of interactions or questions that you're likely to be asked, was really helpful. You know what's really, sort of, I think it's fascinating? Some of the research around this found, not just in one study, but multiple studies over and over again, that if you practice something, like, in this case, you were doing mock interview, so you were practicing. If you do that for just a few minutes, it doesn't even take that long. And they tested it out at different types of time periods, but just a very short period of time of practicing prior to going in an actual event, whether it is, you know, an interview or anything else, the confidence that how you feel, how prepared you feel going into something is dramatically different, well over 50% different when you take the time to practice for just a few minutes. So I think people's tendency, especially for people like you, where they'd sort of regarded themselves as, you know, I just get nervous in interviews, or I just get nervous in public speaking. And, you know, yeah, exactly. And I think that's a good chunk of the population, right? Like most people, most of us get nervous. That's the reality. So what advice would you give to somebody else who is in a similar situation? Because, you know, like we said just a minute ago, so many of us have challenges with public speaking and with interviews and not just getting nervous, but beyond just nervousness, it can, you know, it can derail the entire event in itself. So what advice would you give to somebody else who's in that situation?

Emily 28:20

Just to be like, not think about it too much. I'm an overthinker, and it gets me in trouble, for sure. And so I think if you just go in knowing who you are and taking that few minutes to practice it, even if... it can be anybody– talk to yourself, talk to your dog, you know, and just get out your first few like jitters of your words, and to just go in there and know that these people, they had to go through an interview process too, and so they've already been there, and they know what it's like. And again, if it doesn't happen, that just opens the door up for the next thing to happen. I wouldn't necessarily see it as a setback. It's more like, okay, you practice. You got to practice. Round out. You have another mock interview out of it, and now you'll be ready for whatever the next interview comes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:09

Well, I think that's a perfect place to ask you about how has making this type of change, a more intentional change, how have you seen that impact the other areas of your life?

Emily 29:21

Oh my gosh. This is huge. Like, I feel lighter, like, just brighter, in general. I had my supervisor ask if I wanted to plan a vacation anytime soon because other people were taking vacation. Like, stuff like that is, like, I joke that I still get scared to ask for days off because, you know, it's going to be, like, this huge guilt trip, and it's not. And so I just think that making that initial leap to, like, do the boot camp and to go through it, you know, like I mentioned, I'm not someone who wants to do the change. It just felt like I needed to. And so it just, I feel like I can do stuff now. You know, I've had a son since then, and I get to spend a lot of time with him. I get to work a hybrid work schedule, so I don't have to go in every day, which is great, and it just so much more like, I don't freak out if, like, I don't get calls on the weekend, but if someone were to call me, it probably wouldn't be work related. It would be for something else. And so it's just such a 180, I think I said in my email this most recent one, I was like, "It just... I felt like I had no place to go. I think I had, like, some sunken cost fallacy in there where I was, like, I'm just here, and I've spent so much time doing this that what else am I going to do?" And I think it's that first step is really scary, especially for people that like to overthink everything to just go in. I also like to know, you know, I like to know the ending of a movie before I get invested in it, kind of thing. Not see, like, where is this gonna go, or it just, I think this started with you asking me how I feel now. I feel fantastic. It's just so nice to go somewhere and work and like, know you're doing something good, and it be appreciated, but then you are a person too, and so...

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:21

That's amazing. Well, and I'll read off the most recent email that you sent to us too. There's a portion where you talk about how, now that you've made this change a little over two years ago, and then you were in one role, and then got promoted to another role, arguably, even better fit, and that was part of the plan. You knew that you might be taking a partial step down potentially, and the intention was to be able to make a longer term move. So you've done that, which is amazing, first of all, let me just say that. But in the email you wrote us recently, is that you said, "I'm still in the same department, and actually promoted into another role a few minutes after starting it. Still love it. I went from a place where I was crying multiple times a day and on the verge of falling apart about every little thing to a place of confidence, respect, and calmness. And without this, I'd still be in the same dark place." And so I know that that takes no small amount of work. It doesn't just happen. You know that too, because you've done it firsthand.

Emily 32:26

Yeah, some tough questions. And I was like, do I have to answer this? And he made me email people on LinkedIn. And I was like, "Really? I have to email perfect strangers? Like, you do not know what this was like for me."

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:39

Well, here's what I really wanted to understand a little bit more of, you know, now that you've made that type of change as you continue since you're now thinking about this more as iterative and not you have to find the one thing to be all things for the rest of your life. But now that you're thinking about this in a more iterative fashion, then what do you think is going to be easier the next time around, next time you want to make a change, whether it's in your career or other areas of your life, what do you think will be slightly easier for you?

Emily 33:07

I think being able to make a change without feeling guilty about what other people might think about it or might have to say about it. I am very lucky and that they really encourage you to apply for promotions, even if it's outside of whatever department you're working in. Like, they really want to see you grow and, like, land in good positions. And so for me, I think being able to, like, when that time comes to, you know, look for a more promotional role, then I'll be able to focus on that itself, and like applying for that, rather than all the emotions that come along with leaving your current position and knowing that there's someone who can do the work when I leave, and it's not just going to sit there. So I think that that will, you know, and being able to do the interview that, and I mean that, I would say tangibly, the interview prep was one of the biggest things for me, like I said before. And so I just think all of it combined, really just having a different mindset on how to look for a career or role that you fit into, just less strict pressure on myself, you know.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:20

Absolutely.

Emily 34:21

And, like, you said, it was a lot of work, and it wasn't easy. And there were times where I was like, maybe I should go back, because it took a while to, I think, right before I had an interview for the Secretary position, I told Alistair, "There's an opening at the Red Robin down the street. I think I'm just going to apply there because I have to do something." And he was like, "Don't. No. Don't panic yet." And I think just knowing that if you put the work in, that like, you can expect to see a result, and that it is possible to do a 180 of, like, where you were. Because I honestly was like, I'll never get out of here, like, this is my life forever, and it wasn't. And I said earlier, it is like another lifetime ago.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:09

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:07

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 36:13

I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. I had gone into this new career that I was like, "This is it. I'm making great money. I've got all this opportunity. I get connected with all these high level people." It was like the thing that I thought that I wanted. And it wasn't.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:32

Do you remember those quizzes they had a stake in middle school, or maybe for you, early high school, that matched us with our career path that we should probably be on forever? My results said I should be an architect or a dentist, or I can't even remember what else, doesn't matter, right? But life would be a lot easier if we just took those results and that was the exact career that would fulfill us for the rest of our lives. But unfortunately, that's not how it work. And the journey to figuring out our calling can take a lot longer than we expect, and it leaves us feeling pretty lost at times. If you're in one of those spots where you're feeling lost in your career or like you don't know what the next right step is, this episode is for you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:22

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep and you get it automatically. Even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week, adios. I'm out.