516: From Stuck To Thriving: Overcoming Career Change Challenges To Find Meaningful Work

Vicky Meng 00:01

When I finally hit that moment of realization, everything just clicked. So I think what surprised me was how fast it could happen when you finally get everything together.

Introduction 00:19

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stopped doing work that doesn't fit you. Figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:44

What if you could know for a fact that you would find more meaningful work by attempting a career change? Would you take that leap? Career change isn't easy. And the journey is never a straight line, never. It can take quite a while to get more meaningful work– a lot longer than many people expect. And so often people quit working on a career change when they hit the unavoidable roadblocks and those low points. It's so much harder than almost everyone expects, at least if your goal is meaningful, well paid work. But here's the thing, I have yet to meet anyone who has made it to the other side and doesn't absolutely think that it was all worth it.

Vicky Meng 01:25

When I talk to people, I feel like I have so much to offer but because when they listen to my direct experiences, they don't get excited about me as much because they just feel, like, that I have been in the wrong environment, I won't fit in with their environment.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:46

That's Vicky Meng. Vicky had worked in accounting since graduating college, but started to feel stuck when she realized there were no more opportunities for growth at her organization. This spurred her to start working hard to define what she really wanted out of a career and to take action to find a new job. In the middle of her career change journey, she received a pretty great offer that checked a lot of boxes. But ultimately, she turned it down because it wasn't exactly what she was looking for. Okay, so this part felt really hard. And it also caused her to start feeling like she was losing traction, and that eventually, when other things weren't working, it led to a low point in her career change journey. Spoiler alert. After a year of hard work and dedication to her career change, Vicky ultimately made it to her ideal career. I want you to listen to how Vicky talks about and specifically what helped when she was persevering through multiple low points, not just one, not just two, but multiple low points during this 12 month long career change, and how she calls out those pivotal moments during the process, like learning how to present her existing experiences in a way that would allow her to move into a role that she didn't have lots of experience in. Okay, so fun fact too, Vicky's story is featured in chapter 17 of the Happen To Your Career book. You can actually hear her telling it in her own words on the audiobook version available on Audible or Amazon. But back to the interview at hand. Here's Vicky talking about her initial decision to make a career change.

Vicky Meng 03:30

Yeah, so I guess I should say that I started in corporate accounting because my education background is in accounting and I actually went straight up accounting for Bachelors, for Masters and I got my CPA. So supposedly, I should have followed my peers path in going through either the public accounting route, or I would just stay within the corporate accounting route. But to be honest with you, accounting, even though I did so much education in that field, has never really felt like the field for me. It was more of a family culture background influence. But what was sad about it was that I knew accounting wasn't for me, at the same time, I had no other passion. I consider myself a boring person. Because you know how a lot of other people probably say, "Oh, you know, I love acting" or "I love painting." "I love photography." I just never had one of those passions. So I just followed what my family's advice was, and what seemed to be the most realistically best choice. That's what I did and it did help me to get up with my own feet in the beginning right after college. You know, all companies need accountants and I could find a job and I was able to find a good company that sponsor me through the emigration process, in which, plays a monumental part of my life right now. That is why I can still go on to pursue my further dreams in this career. But yeah, I just didn't know if it's not accounting then, what could it be. I did transition into the finance department with my previous employer working in the Treasury Department. And I did not know what that was about at all. But what was good about it is that the organization's pretty small, so I was able to transition to different departments. And at the same time, I was able to dive deep in each of those areas. Not only dive deep, but also gain a very clear big picture of how each area plays into the whole corporate finance and accounting structure and how each department helps to make the final decision. So I did Treasury for about two years. And then I transitioned to financial analysis, which is another department under the corporate finance umbrella. And I did that for another two years. So that makes up five years in total, but I was literally doing everything that the company needed– accounting and finance wise. And in the end, I just rose up to this, like Strategic Finance Advisor for the executive team, because I've worked with different departments. And I know how different parts integrate with each other. So whether it's tax related, whether it's finance projections, whether it's accounting recordings, whether it's cash movements, I was able to come up with a good strategy that's customized to that organization's specifically. So that's where I was most valued at. And I actually enjoyed being the strategic partner in that way.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:59

Yeah. What did you enjoy about that? I'm curious.

Vicky Meng 07:02

I think I really liked the one-on-one interactions that I often had with each executive team member. The CFO came to me for a specific project. And I felt like I was helping him directly. And I was overseeing this project, or starting a project on my own and overseeing it until the end and actually seeing the results happening. And I could see the impact that is making on the organization. I really liked that aspect. And one of the things that I realized is that I actually enjoy working in small team environments, I don't like to be one of the members of a large corporate accounting team and just handle maybe one facility, month-end closing repeatedly every month. What I like about it is a role with various projects that could come up, and it's very fast paced, and you have to integrate different areas of knowledge. That's what I really liked about it, it's not just solely about accounting, it's not just solely about finance, it's not just about tax, you have to integrate everything together in order to find the best solution.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:21

Well, it sounds like it in some ways, it is the creative application of those different experiences and knowledge sets. And then also, it sounds like you have to have that particular type of variety in there in order to make it rewarding for you. Is that fair to say?

Vicky Meng 08:39

Yeah, so one of the strengths that came out in my StrengthsFinder assessment, besides this one on one helping part, was the factor input. So I'm a person who really likes to do research, who really likes to know about different areas. I'd like to get that input. Even sometimes when I don't see where this input could actually help me in this project, maybe it won't ever help me, but I still like to collect that information. I still like to understand it. And I feel like someday, I'm sure, it'll come to you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:20

Well, so I think what's really interesting about that, to me, is, I know the end of the story here too. And I know that eventually you decided to transition. And I also know that later on, much later, when you were in the midst of your transition, that inclination to research really helped you be able to make that transition. However, what were some of the final events that made you say, "You know what, I have to transition. I have to transition away from this company. Away from the roles that I'm currently in." What caused you to make that decision?

Vicky Meng 09:57

I think the main factor there was that I just couldn't see myself grow anymore in my own organization. As I mentioned that I've already worked in various departments, I'm already directly helping the executive team. I've definitely made contributions. And I could see those contributions or new contribution areas where I could help with but when they're coming, it's not for sure. The development stage of my old company is also a... they weren't exactly looking for expansion or anything. So I just knew that I wanted to, although it was very nice to be the strategic partner, but I just feel like I have not yet built up a very solid foundation for my career where, you know, I could say, "This is the area that I've been working on for so long. And I know every detail about it, I could apply it to any corporate skill." I don't have that skill set or that career path that I could rely on and say "That is what I do." I was sort of like a generalist, which is a very good thing to be. But still, I felt like I needed some specific career track to depend on. So that's when I really looked into a program that could help me figure out, so where is the specific, what exactly is the specific track that I could put all my energy towards that area for the next decade?

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:39

Interesting. So it sounds like you have outgrown the company?

Vicky Meng 11:44

Yes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:44

In terms of what you wanted, it was no longer what they were able to provide in that same way as related to your growth. And then it sounds like you came to that conclusion. And then at some point, it must have asked the question, well, what's next then? How do I find that type of next step? What happened from there?

Vicky Meng 12:08

So my upbringing tells me that you have to depend on yourself all the time, especially when you encounter a difficulty, you should, you know, work hard, as hard as you can, make yourself go crazy, and you'll find a way to navigate through the crisis. But for me, I was willing to work hard, but I didn't know where or how to put that energy. So I went out to different events, I started going to these recruiting events from the university that I attended, and all these like career related events around the city. And that's when I first encountered my first career coach, a person who has worked in the public accounting industry, because at that time, I was still sort of exploring the idea, maybe I could still go with public accounting.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:09

Yeah.

Vicky Meng 13:09

So I worked with her on a monthly basis for about a year. And that was kind of like me testing the water with this coaching idea. And I realized that talking with her every month was a happy moment for me. Because I was so unhappy with my job on a day to day basis that talking with her, even if it's just for one hour each month, felt like a way out, like I could actually feel, like, make me feel hopeful. Like I could actually make this happen. Someone out there is dragging me out of this very bad situation. But I also realized at the end of, probably a year into working with her that once per month wasn't enough for me. I make progress little by little while working with her. I did reach out to a couple of companies in the public accounting sector, and tried to explore the ideas of still sticking with accounting. It didn't work out very well. I still didn't feel like that was the way to go. But I did get myself on track in terms of interviewing even and saying no, or crossing out some of the possibilities on the list.

Vicky Meng 14:32

What made you feel like accounting was not for you? I think it's awesome that you were exploring and trying to figure out "Hey, is this, in fact, right for me?" But after doing a bit of that exploration and having some of that reach out, what caused you to say "You know what, this most definitely, isn't it?"

Vicky Meng 14:53

That's a good question. I am an ENFJ. And I think a lot of times for me, if the feeling isn't right, it's just, it's not right. Well I interviewed for accounting consulting with a really great firm, and I got the offer, the team was great. Like I could see myself thrive in that team environment. But when I think about doing the type of work that they do, and helping the type of clients that they were helping, because we're specifically targeting, like law firms, law firms where they're all of their clients, I don't see myself very excited about that industry. And I can definitely do the work, but I just don't want to advise on "This is how you do your books. This is how you should debit this, credit that," It didn't very excite me at all when I think about the details of that job on a day to day basis.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:56

Yeah. And it doesn't really seem to have that same type of variety that you were talking about earlier on. It's not this, I mean, certainly you can get variety in accounting, but it doesn't seem like the combination of all of the different experiences and the gathering of the different experiences and being able to use them in a way that, like, you were talking about earlier. It seems the opposite of that in some ways.

Vicky Meng 16:21

Yeah. I mean accounting is definitely something that happens, it's often at the month-end, right? All the activities have already happened, they became reality, you just find a way to summarize and record them in the right way. But I think what I really wanted was, I want to be a part of the action, you know, day to day basis, I want to see that happen, that the decision that I'm making right now is going to affect the company today, or this week. And if it's a bad decision, then oh my gosh, it's a lot of pressure. But still, that fast paced feeling, that's the kind of impact that I want to have.

Scott Anthony Barlow 17:01

Well, that's super interesting, too because I think that there's a lot of patterns here for you, as well, that I didn't even know about. And what is really interesting to me about what you said is that accounting is very past focused.

Scott Anthony Barlow 17:15

And even as you were talking about your interaction with that first career coach long before we ever met you and everything too, what excited you was about the possibilities in the future. And everything that you've articulated so far, has been about, in some ways that future focused or that proactive focus or being a part like, you said being a part of it versus just like recording it. And I know that's a drastic oversimplification and not meaning to undermine anything that accounting does. Because accounting is a great field. However, it's a different focus entirely. And as you started to get into this change, because you had decided, "Okay, I need to make a more drastic change than what I was thinking" more drastic than just going and working with another organization with accounting. And as you started to get into it, what surprised you in going through this type of career change process, because what you have done, and I'll just fast forward to the end for just a second, you were able to, not only make a pretty sizable change, but also you did a new organization and new industry, if I understand correctly, too. And what surprised you as you were going through this process over the last 10 months here?

Vicky Meng 17:14

Yes.

Vicky Meng 18:34

I don't think actually I was surprised by this process. I kind of expected how unstructured it's going to be. And that's why I really held on to the idea of a structure in place and knowing where I'm at. Because I know this career change is not like class. There's no syllabus. You can't follow a timeline. It's so different. It could change at any moment. I came with that expectation. But knowing that, that's why I really needed someone to continuously motivate me and push me and let me know where I'm at. Because if not, then I'll be just doing whatever. It'll all be very scattered. But I think what was scary was from February to August, I don't think I was making any progress.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:28

Tell me about that. What made it feel like you're making no progress?

Vicky Meng 19:31

Because before August, I was following the structure. I was doing the modules, I was reaching out. But the frequency of me having a conversation was probably only two per month. Two to five per month, it kind of varies. And to begin with, because I was so scared to reach out to strangers, a lot of those conversations started with people that I kind of knew before. And when August hit, July hit, I'm like, "This is not going anywhere." I definitely doubted myself and doubted even this decision many, many times. And that's, and I was still like I, even though I followed the syllabus, but I was still unable to define what my ambition was up to that point up to August. I tried treasury, I tried financial analysis, and they were still both on my list. And I still felt like, "Oh, I could go either way." And I talked to some of the large organizations or tech companies in the Bay Area, and it was just so competitive too. But I think more importantly, it's just because of that industry and with those companies, they're so popular right now that they never block applicants. So even though some of the people that I talked to in there, there were managers, and they looked at my resume, and they say, "Oh, your resume is amazing," but because I don't have the direct industry experience, and the direct working experience, I guess, on that corporate skill, even if they submit my resume into the system, and they helped me submit on sort of like a referral, it's still very difficult to be recognized by the hiring manager, because there were just too many people applying. And I felt like I could try harder, I could network even more within that organization just to find, you know, at least one opening or one person who was willing to bet on me. But at the same time, I was like, "I don't feel like doing that with this organization." Like, they're so great. They're so popular. And it's definitely I thought that I wanted to move out to the Bay Area. And I thought that's the whole point of me participating in Happen To Your Career is to get me up there. But I don't see myself working so hard for any of the organizations out there just because I don't feel the passion and myself towards what they do. And that kind of hit me in the end, and this is like fast forwarding to, you know, after my second little point already. That's when I finally realized that, "Okay, maybe this whole idea of moving to the Bay Area wasn't right to begin with." And I think that surprised me, I guess in the end, because I never expected myself to stay in LA. But when I finally hit that moment of realization, everything clicks so fast afterwards, because literally the next week, I reached out to the manager of my new organization, and the location organization is perfect, and the role is perfect. And this manager, he recognizes my potential fully, at least in the way that I want people to recognize me. And I interviewed and then I signed the offer. It was literally like two weeks after I realized that everything just clicked. So I think what surprised me was how fast it could happen when you finally get everything together.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:13

I think that's so interesting, especially since you said you are on Myers Briggs, which you are talking about– your Myers Briggs results, which you said you were an ENFJ. Okay. So that means that for people who may not have taken Myers Briggs Type Indicator that you rely heavily on feeling and if it feels right. And this sounds insane, but we see it again and again and again and again. And you can go listen to hundreds and hundreds of episodes. Once people start to get it to where it is more authentic to them, the decision and the route that they're taking is more authentic to them, it clicks so quickly after that. It's not always two weeks like that's relatively quick as far as things go. However, it starts to click so much quicker once you get those pieces right. And as crazy as it seems, Vicky, I think what you went through, and going through and doing some of the work and the identification and everything that came along with all the hard pieces along with it almost had to happen in some ways to get it to finally click. And that way, you could start really moving forward in the way that you want to. What was that like? Why do you think it was so hard to come to that conclusion for you and make the change and say, "You know what, I don't even really want to, like, I've been working hard on this. I don't even really want to go this stretch."?

Vicky Meng 24:45

Yeah. That's very interesting. I mean, it's so liberating right now. I know you can't tell, you know, just from looking at me but in my heart, ever since that moment, a realization happened, I felt so liberated like, for the first time in my whole life, because I guess for the previous 27 years, I've always felt like that I needed to live up to other people's expectations. And usually it was my parents, but then it became my peers. So going on to the Bay Area, definitely was me trying to live out my ambition in the way that satisfies my ego. To put it simply, I wanted to be admired by my peers, I wanted to be admired by my family members saying, "Wow, you know, she made such a drastic change. She's working with one of the big tech companies in the Bay Area, she's getting paid a lot." That's how people define success for a lot of people that I know. And it's just the hype around that area. And that area, that sort of made me feel like oh, you know, if I want to be the best, which I always want to be in my, I'm very competitive in nature, then I should get in there, get into the game, and be the best in that area, beat everyone else. I think that's why I've always thought that that's the place to go. But there is not Vicky at all, Los Angeles is definitely more Vicky. And that's why like realizing that right now, I just feel happy from the bottom of my heart, because it's not about how famous my new organization is, it's about how much I am aligned to what this organization does, and how excited I am to work with my new manager and thinking about the contributions that I can make to the team. And it's also about the industry that this company is in. It's also an industry that I deeply care about, like on the weekend, I'll read about this industry, just because I'm interested in it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:08

The switch that happens once you're focused, not on other people's expectations, or even expectations of other people's expectations, but then you focus more on what is true for you. And when you switch that focus, not only does it feel different in ways that are hard to describe, and I think you've done a fantastic job of describing what that is like for you. But it is also, it puts you in a place where you can contribute to the world and organization and family members and friends, it puts you in a place where you can contribute completely differently. And that's something that's really difficult to be able to explain on a podcast or in a book or anything else to describe the types of feelings that happen after you make that switch that you were talking about. And I remember, not that long ago, I think it was about a year ago, I was talking to a guy who was in his 70s. And he had found us through Google and ended up on a phone call with him. And he was telling me about, he had gone through all 70 plus years focused on other people's expectations. So I think it's so cool that you have done that far, far earlier than 70. That's pretty amazing. Let me ask you two other questions I really badly wanted to ask you about. One, I remember a point in time, where I guess it wasn't that long ago, it probably was back in August where you were describing, you know, really struggling and moving through a few of these pieces where you and I got on the phone. And we were chatting about a couple of different things that weren't working and how to make them work differently. And the thing that I wanted to ask you about that is, what were some of the things that as you're going through the process works particularly well for you. Tell me about that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:01

So yeah, I remember that call. And I definitely feel like that call you taught me how to liberate myself also, because…

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:09

Oh, interesting.

Vicky Meng 29:10

Yes. You taught me how to just be myself, and be honest about my experiences. And that's the only way where you could find your own way, your own path. Because I was so worried and sort of just complaining to you that there's such a huge gap between where I am and where I want to be, and my current organization is small and what it does is, in finance is different than what I want to doing in finance in the next step of my career. And when I talk to people, I feel like I have so much to offer but because when they listen to my direct experiences they don't get excited about me as much because they just feel, like, that I have been in the wrong environment, I won't fit in with their environment. And you told me, you know, why don't you just tell them exactly what you've done even though my own organization did not have a ton of structure, which sounds like a bad thing. But in reality, because it was losing structure, I got to work on projects that touched on different areas of corporate finance and accounting all the time. And that is actually the biggest value I have. Because not a lot of people understand the impacts of so many areas in an organization. And I do. And having that background information, and then try to dive deep in a certain area makes you go deeper easily. Because you just know, you know what you're doing. And you know what role you are in the whole grand scheme of things, and you won't, well, hopefully, you'll make fewer mistakes. And so that's exactly what I did. And when I was talking to the manager of my new company, I told him that, you know, I was able to, I was constantly exposed to treasury, even though I wasn't really working as a treasury analyst at my current company. But that's also, you know, the best thing that happened to me because I was able to do a lot of cross functional work, and I understand how everything plays into each other's role.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:41

That is so cool. I didn't actually realize that that helped in that way. But that also makes me happy. And I really think that that is truly one of the best, I mean it really is, like we've talked about threads of that through our entire conversation just in the last 40 minutes or so here. Because it was the thing that was the most fun for you being able to have exposure to all these areas and give advice on all these areas. And being able to see the impact from having exposure to all these areas and work with other people in the organization. And then on top of that, it's also your biggest value when you started to harness that and really take ownership over that, that is such a value. That's so cool, Vicky. Oh, go ahead.

Vicky Meng 32:30

Oh, I just want to say that, I think before I just felt so ashamed of my experience.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:38

In what way?

Vicky Meng 32:39

In the like, objective way. Because how people look down or not look down, but people when they see an organization that's small, that's less structured, they don't necessarily associate a very competent employee with that image. But it just happened, for me, that I feel like I'm a pretty competent employee. But I was working in that kind of environment. And I felt so ashamed to showcase or go out there and tell everyone, you know, "This is the company that I'm working for." But at the same time, I really want it to be recognized. And I think I can do a great job if I were put into a different environment, but I just needed someone to recognize me first. And after having that conversation with you, it was liberating, because I stopped being ashamed of my experiences. And what I did, I just went out there and told people what I did and tell them why I think I was so valuable. And I could still add a lot of value to their organization if they give me a chance.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:57

So much of these types of big transitions are getting past the head games that we play with ourselves, in many different ways. And it almost makes the tactical like job change, career change type pieces. Almost. They're not easy in comparison. I don't want to give people any indication that they're easy but easier by far in comparison, compared to moving through all of those pieces. Like you're talking about, like the shame that went with how you viewed your past experience, which was a great experience, was wonderful experience and it's who, you know, who you are and what you bring to the table. That is really cool. What advice would you give someone else who's in that similar situation here?

Vicky Meng 34:47

Yeah. So I think my advice would be, definitely have faith in yourself and this whole process. Because it could get very dark especially at the beginning and you don't know how long the start process is going to last. But it could suddenly turn so bright that it goes so fast that you don't even, you can't even capture everything but it could just suddenly turn around. So have faith. Definitely it will come, the brightness will come.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:27

If you enjoy this story, this episode, then you can learn more like the one you just heard today in our audiobook: Happen To Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work If you're listening to this, and you enjoy this podcast, I know you're gonna love the book. You can visit happentoyourcareer.com/audible in order to get the book right now and start listening right away. All right, we'll see you next time. Here's what's coming up next week.

Speaker 3 35:55

If you step back from employee engagement, what drives that? Well, it's really getting people into the right roles, fit to role, strengths to role, so that people can use their strengths in their current role.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:07

Okay, here's a question for you. If you were to prioritize what creates the happiest and most engaged, most productive people in their work, what's at the top of that list? In other words, what matters most when it comes to you doing fulfilling work? I'm going to give you a hint. It's not ping pong tables. It's not pay. It's not even a flexible work schedule. Although that's actually pretty far up the list too. It turns out, there's one thing that has a higher impact than all of those. And that is whether or not your strengths fit the role that you're performing at work.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:47

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.