593: Getting Specific in Career Change by Zeroing in on Your Ideal Organization

Jenna Bias 00:01

I realized it wasn't so much important, of like, what my next career title was gonna be but it was more important for me what I wanted in a company.

Introduction 00:16

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:41

Imagine you open your email and there in your inbox is a message from your ideal organization telling you about an open role they think you would be great for. After a well deserved celebratory dance break, of course, obviously, then you can pat yourself on the back because you made that happen. Okay, this might seem a little far fetched and seems sort of out there, but this could be your reality just months from now. There are ways to engineer situations to become the perfect candidate for your dream organization, and then build relationships that get on the hiring managers outreach lists. Okay, so a lot of times, if you've been a hiring manager before, it's not necessarily this formal, but it absolutely is the way that it works. As soon as you know there's a need in an organization, then you start to think to yourself, "who could fill this need?" Okay, well, if that's the case, and you know that, you can use that to your advantage in some really positive ways for yourself and the organization and the hiring managers. All this could either be your reality, but you have to be willing to do things drastically different in order to stand out.

Jenna Bias 01:56

For some people, getting specific on your role could help. But for me, getting specific on the company is what helped most. But either way, I think getting specific is what's going to give you clarity, and it's going to allow you to get to the place that where I was putting all my eggs in one basket, because I knew it was the right fit, rather than posting up on LinkedIn job boards and Indeed, and just putting your resume out there for umpteenth places like that has minimal effect.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:26

That's Jenna Bias. Jenna is an RN who had worked as a bedside nurse for her entire career. When she began to reach the point of burnout, she knew that in order to find fulfillment in her career, she needed to switch industries. Jenna began really digging into what she wanted and what she needed out of her next career change, and Jenna began really digging into what she wanted and needed out of her next career and narrowed down her search to just a handful of companies that she was really excited about. She then went above and beyond in her attempts to build relationships with people at her top target organization. You'll hear her talking about the strategy of using loom, a video messaging tool, to reach out to multiple people at this company, including the CEO. Her persistence and determination ultimately got her out of bedside nursing and into a role with her ideal company. Jenna does an awesome job explaining all of the steps she took, the tactics she used, and how she got herself in front of this organization.

Jenna Bias 03:27

I got my first degree in nutrition, and I really enjoyed it, like, I was your typical, like, nerd. I really enjoyed my classes. I loved working on group projects. And I think what it boiled down to at that time was the content. I was really interested in it. But then it came time to utilizing that degree for a career, and I was really stumped, as most 22 year olds are. So I kind of wrapped my brain, you know, I wanted to make a decision that was "stable" and that led me to nursing. So after my degree in nutrition, I got a second degree in nursing. And looking back, I think the signs were all there that it was not a good choice for me, because contrary to my time studying nutrition at Cal Poly, I did not enjoy the content. I wouldn't say dreaded studying, but you know, the joy wasn't there how it was with nutrition. But I kind of ignored the red flags, continued on, and ended up being a nurse. And of course, as I'm sure everyone can guess, that kind of misalignment continued into my career.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:39

Yeah. Where did you start to recognize and pay attention to those red flags? Where did you start to first learn that maybe this isn't quite right for me?

Jenna Bias 04:49

Yeah, I think for a long time I chalked it up to like situation. So for my first nursing job, fresh out of nursing school, I was working in an emergency department. I was working 12 hour shifts. I was working night shift, and I had an hour-long commute. So just to like put that into perspective, I would leave for work at 5:30pm, get to work around 6:30, get ready, work a 12 hour shift till 7am, give report, drive home at 7:30am, shower, go to bed from like 9am to 4pm and then do it all over. So I recognized early on that it was not sustainable, regardless of if I loved the work or not, I'll get to that in a bit, but just the situational aspect of it. But at the time, I was a new grad nurse, just kind of doing what I thought I needed to do to get my foot in the door. And so then fast forward, when I got my second nursing job, it was a hospital closer to home. I was working eight hour shifts. I was working days. I liked my co-workers. So a lot of those key pieces had changed for me. So here, I thought this was going to make a big difference for me. I actually remember my husband, when I got the job, saying something along the lines of, like, "Oh, this is great. Like, I feel like you'll probably be in this job with this hospital for a long time because of all the situational aspects." But what I soon realized is the work was the same, and so that level of unhappiness was the same for me. It wasn't about the logistics, like, I didn't care if I was working long hours. Yes, not having a long commute was nice. But for me, the work was not only not filling my cup, but it was like draining my cup. Like, draining. So, yeah, I think it took a few jobs for me to realize, okay, it's not the situation, it's the work, and just kind of coming to terms with that and getting over the barrier of making the decision to finally leave this career even though I spent so much time, effort, and money to getting here.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:55

Once you made the decision that you were going to transition, what did it look like for you to decide where you wanted to focus your time and energy. What did that look like?

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:06

[9:06] I'm curious what made that so helpful, and why do you think that that worked and jived with you?

Jenna Bias 07:06

Yeah, that part was tough, too. I remember telling Phillip, my coach, in the beginning that he asked, you know, "Oh, what's some..." like a piece of advice to me that I can use along the way to kind of keep you on track, or, like, bring you back in, you know, if I ever feel like we're getting off the right path. And I told him, I was like, "I love a lot of things. I have a lot of interest. I tend to be a somewhat like, indecisive person." And then I gave them the example of, like, when I go to a restaurant, like, always want, like, try new things, and there's so much that looks good, but a lot of times I pick something and I'm like, "Oh, man, this wasn't like as good as I thought." And so I told Phillip, I was like, just remind me to, like, just pick the cheeseburger. And what that meant to me was basically, like, pick something that's rooted, that I'm rooted with, that I know is always going to be something that I'm passionate about, and bring me back to, like, what aligns with me, rather than kind of getting lost in all these possibilities. So that really helps because I felt like when I was leaving nursing that there was so many possibilities, it was a little bit overwhelming, and I didn't know how to hone in on exactly where it is I wanted to go. Which I'm sure is probably, I know there's some kind of, probably two types of people in the career change path, like, one where they want to leave their career and they know exactly where they want to go. And for me, I knew, like wholeheartedly, I wanted to leave, but I didn't know where I wanted to go. And I think that probably is a big barrier for people leaving initially, too. Because, oh, not only do I want to leave my career back, I don't have a plan of where I'm going next. Like, that's a hard pill to swallow. So for me, getting just like, kind of going back to my roots, you know, with the whole, I've always been interested in nutrition, always been interested in health and wellness, how can I take that forward and get specific on what I want to do in my career? That helped me a lot.

Jenna Bias 09:11

Yeah, totally. I think it's two parts. The first part is I got so lost in all the possibilities of different career types, and didn't know which one was going to be a good fit for me. And it wasn't until we kind of took the title, I guess, the career title off the table, that I finally started to get some clarity. So I realized it wasn't so much important, of like, what my next career title was going to be, but it was more important for me what I wanted in a company. So I got really specific about that. I knew I wanted to work still within the health space. I'm always loved, like, more of the functional medicine side, compared to the conventional medicine world that I was working in the hospital. I wanted a company that was having a big impact on people. I was, like, making a difference for the better. That was a big thing for me. Yes, I was working in a hospital setting "helping people", but it was a bit of a broken system, and there's much like a revolving door kind of analogy with the hospital. So moving forward, I really wanted a company that had a truly positive impact on people. I was got really specific on the type of culture I wanted to be in, some ideals, but not deal breakers was types of schedule I was kind of intrigued by this whole work from home wave, and I liked the flexibility of it, and I really wanted a big thing for me was autonomy in my role as a nurse, you're kind of binded by the red tape of a hospital, and it dictates your day. I really wanted a role where I could kind of like lead myself and have responsibilities that I took care of on my own. So none of those things point to one role, right? But you could theoretically find companies that really emphasize those things or prioritize those things. And when I did that and got, you know, there's several other things that I got really specific about, it ultimately led me to three companies. I think I had a list of, I think, eight companies that were possibilities, but really only three that I wanted to entertain the idea of looking into, and only one that really, like, spoke to me. It seems so weird when I found the company that I work for now, I just had this feeling like, "Oh my gosh, this is the company I'm gonna work for next", which is strange, because I never... I'm not really like a love it for sight, or like I'm blanking on the word, but you know what I mean? Like, I'm not that type of person where I think things just happen like that. So it was kind of interesting.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:48

As you started investigating this and other organizations, what caused you to realize that all the work that you had done with your ideal career profile or to define what it is that you actually wanted in your next opportunity and beyond, what caused you to believe that, "No, this is actually, in fact, where I want to be and what I'm looking for."?

Jenna Bias 12:12

Yeah, actually, I never thought of this before. But it kind of reminded me when I was talking about how I felt when I was a college student studying nutrition, that's how I felt like when I found this company. I mean, I did a ton of research on them. I would read up about... I read about the CEO, and I read about their trajectory, and I would look at their website, and just kind of look at what they had going on most recently. And it was interesting to me, like, I felt like I did when I was back studying nutrition. So I think, and I think that's how a job should feel like if you're really interested into it, you're just going to perform better, be more engaged. And that's how I was even just learning about the company, let alone working for them. So I think that was a big green flag for me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:58

That's interesting. And it's interesting that you're picking that up now in hindsight, too, that it was the same types of feelings. Well, one of the things that we do behind the scenes as coaches, that's where we're often trained to hone in on those types of recreations of the feelings, if you will. So where have you found that type of joy that you're looking for? Where have you found that type of environment or situation in the past? Okay, now, how do we identify where you can experience that in the future? And then how can we use that as a tool for measurement to indicate that you're heading the right direction? And it's not a perfect science by any means, but it sounds like that's part of what you're keying in on.

Jenna Bias 13:43

Yeah. And I'm glad you pointed that out, because I think at the time that I was creating my company outreach list, knew that my company was my number one. But it wasn't until Phillip was like, "Well, why are we... I was creating this to-do list of how I was going to reach out to several companies at once." And he's like, "Well, no." He's like, "Clearly, you feel some type of way about this company, like, let's hone in. Let's focus here. Like, I want you to put your efforts here." And he was the one that, really, I think, more than I did at the time, saw my draw to this company. And in my mind, I was like, "Well, no, I can't, like, put all my eggs in one basket. And I can't, you know, that might be unproductive if I'm just reaching out to one company." And I realized throughout this process that that's one of the big takeaways for me, was you gotta get me, like, on job boards, applying to all these different jobs, but it's never going to work because you're not fully presenting yourself for maybe the job that you really do want. And I think once I recognize that how if I really dedicated myself to this what I wanted, then I could get it if I navigated the right way and communicated myself in the right way. So yeah, you're right. I think Phillip, kind of, picking up on that, really, is what kind of led me to them even more because before I was kind of trying to, like, spread myself thin across the board of all companies.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:09

It's very much against conventional wisdom. Like, I heard you throw a couple of quips out there, like, "don't put all your eggs in one basket and add two or three more". But if you go after what you want, and you're focusing most of your energy on that, it becomes a lot more possible and more likely that you're going to get to what you want, which, of course, sounds logical after the fact, and when you say it that way. But when you're experiencing it, and you're going through that, you've got all the emotions and everything else that is sort of stopping you from heading towards where you actually want to go. So I appreciate you sharing that. Also, one of the things that I know was a part of your story is you did a phenomenal job not just putting effort towards this particular organization that you had decided that, "Hey, this is it. This is where I want to be, and I want to figure out if that can happen first", but also you had a great reach out strategy. Tell me a little bit about that. What prompted that, what was the situation, and tell me a little bit about what you did in the nitty gritty to be able to begin building relationships at this organization.

Jenna Bias 16:17

Yeah, I think the first part, which I kind of touched on, was like, just doing a ton of research. And that honestly came from, like, just my natural interest in the company. But I think in the long term, A, it helped me realize, "yes, this is where I want to be." And B, it just helped me foster those relationships down the road, because I was genuinely interested in these people that I was talking to. I knew about them, I knew about the company, so that just helped be more candid down the line, because I didn't feel like I was, like, meeting strangers.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:47

So when you say research, you were researching the individuals in the organization. How did you go about that research?

Jenna Bias 16:54

Yeah, first, it just started out as company research, and then so the company is technically a startup. They've been around for a couple years now, but because they're a startup, kind of, based in San Francisco, in a very, what's the word, they're in the functional medicine space, right? So it's a very upcoming topic that's on the rise. So because of that, Rupa has been mentioned on several other podcasts. My CEO has been on several other podcasts. So just one step of research led to another, and I found myself just learning a lot about the company that way. And then furthermore, when I decided to apply to certain positions, like I mentioned in their application process, they often would have a little blurb about the hiring manager there. They're very transparent about who would be hiring. And so I almost feel like it's almost like an invitation, like we're telling you, "Hey, I'm the person doing the hiring here. I'm introducing myself to you via the application." I almost felt like it would be like a disservice to not then go introduce myself, like they're almost asking you how I felt. And so and I think for me, that made it a little less uncomfortable, just kind of like cold emailing, cold reaching out, but I kept it light. I kind of echoed their casualness, which for me, was more comfortable than you know you're typically taught to be, like...

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:13

"Dear so and so. I found your company while I was searching on LinkedIn, and I..." Yeah.

Jenna Bias 18:19

Exactly. Yeah, so that made it a little bit more comfortable. So as far as reaching out, like via LinkedIn or email, that wasn't super challenging. It almost like I said, seemed invited. But then I did kind of take to the next step, and created a few loom videos to just kind of further introduce myself, but further express my interest, like face to face. Because, I mean, you can say so much in an email, but I feel like, until you hear someone out and like, see their genuine like expression, I feel like that goes so much further. And at the end of the day, lots of people are sending emails. So I feel like, if you can create a little video and kind of put a face to the name, I think for me, that ended up being like, priceless.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:02

Well, it's not perfect for every single situation, but it in your situation, I think it was highly effective. Because, one, as you said, you can put a face to the name, which creates a more personal type of approach. It also, in your case, it was a casual company already, like, that's how they operate. You had already done the research to indicate that that wasn't just a thing that they did on their website, like they operate this way, right? So in your reach outs, if you're modeling that in the same tone, it strategically feels to them like you fit. And more importantly, you'd already done the work yourself to realize that that's what you wanted, so you're simply answering their call to help them understand why you're a good fit in ways that they don't even necessarily, it's not like on a resume or anything like that, it just feels like it.

Jenna Bias 19:54

I think too. I didn't mention this, but the fear that goes along with it is like, oh, the potential them not responding, which I didn't realize now it really doesn't matter. They get so much influx of information. It's like, who cares if they don't respond? But for me, my CEO did end up acknowledging my video and just sent me like a simple email back, telling me good luck on the interview process. And from there, I ended up applying to, I think, four different times through a few different roles. And every step of the way, I just shot her an email updating her on my journey, and she responded to every single email, not being like, nothing like extraordinary, but just the response in itself was like to me, again, just exemplified this is a company I want to work for. Here's this busy CEO taking time out of her day to just shoot me a quick email acknowledging the work that I'm putting in to try and be a part of her organization. And then, yeah, as far as applying to multiple roles, it just came down to, I knew this is the company I wanted to work for. So again, rather than spreading myself then across different companies, I was like, "No, I'm just going to focus here." And even though I actually got denied initially for my current role, obviously, in the end, it ended up paying off when I applied the second time. And I think a large part of that was because I had already touched base with the hiring manager. We did already kind of have that rapport. And, yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:21

Okay, so let's dig into that for just a second, because I think that's important. First of all, I will say most people in the world, after they get turned down, are not going to go back and they're not going to continue to work at it. Also, one of the things that we see over and over again is that is something that is relatively normal. I cannot tell you, well actually, if for people who've listened more than one episode, you may have already heard that story a few times along the way, because it does happen relatively frequently. So kudos to you for continuing to persist. And also, what did that look like? Take me through, I think you said you applied for four, how many did you interview for? What did the process look like?

Jenna Bias 22:06

Yeah, so one of them that I applied for initially, to be frank, I knew was, not that wasn't a good fit, I was just like, highly under qualified. It didn't so much... I think there's a lot of situations where you can pull from your past work and kind of more fit to fit new roles. In this situation, when I tried to do that, it was a stretch, to say the least, but I gave it a go. And that was one of the situations where I did create a loom for that hiring manager as well as their recruiter, and I sent her a LinkedIn message, just introducing myself. And she was very sweet in her response, and transparent in the fact that I probably wasn't going to have what they were looking for in that role. But again, it was the response for me of how they handled it that didn't turn me away, because they were so inviting, encouraging, not everyone's gonna be a good fit for every role, so I didn't take it personally. Late, fast forward, I applied to one other role that I never actually heard back from because I think what happened is I applied to my current role, and at that point I had made contact with the recruiter. So I went through the recruiter like a phone screening, and then got to the first round interview with the hiring manager, which it went great. We really connected and talked about the role, and it was something that I thought would be like a really good fit. And then I didn't make it to the next two phases of the interview. So then at that point, we exchanged some emails. She, again, when I got the denial email, I asked her just for positive feedback, you know, what can I do differently, any recommendations moving forward. And she sent me like a novel, which was super awesome. I could tell she took, like, time out her day to give me feedback. Who, A, I'm not even going to be working at her company yet, and B, she doesn't really even know me, but I think that's because when we had our interview, like we were able to connect, even though I didn't end up being the pick for the role that time, she could still connect with me on a personal level, and we still learned a lot about each other. So to me, that first interview was still a win because we fostered like a relationship.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:12

Yeah. Wait, can we dig into that for just a second? Because I think that's a frustration for so many people. Like, hey, I'll ask feedback, and I won't get anything, But you got a novel worth of feedback, because not by accident. And yes, this is an amazing organization, and clearly they value people who are interested in them, but also they don't have infinite amounts of time too. So the reason this worked is you'd already started to establish some kind of beginnings of relationship with the CEO. I'm sure those emails were probably forwarded. I don't know, but probably they were forwarded over to recruiting, or maybe they were BCC'd or something else along those lines. You had continuous touch points all along the way. Maybe they talked behind the scenes, maybe they didn't. But then you had, as you said, began to build a connection during that interview, and you had focused on that, so you now have the beginnings of a relationship. So now it's not just some random candidate asking for feedback, it is this person that I know and had a great time with. And that's totally different when you go to make the ask, than just some random person that's out there. So I wanted to take a moment and just break that down, because you did a really nice job allowing it to get to that point so that it worked when you went and asked for feedback.

Jenna Bias 25:29

Yeah, I think a big thing for me, I'm sure it's probably for other people as well, is because I had all those touch points and in situations of like, asking for feedback. I know big thing for me was like, kind of a fear component. I almost felt like, "Oh my gosh. Am I reaching out too much?" You said, "Oh, they're probably talking behind the scenes, like, in a good way", but in my mind, I was like, man, are they like, "Oh, that Jenna girl. She applied again."

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:56

"Never hire that one, xxx.",

Jenna Bias 25:57

Yeah. Get rid of her. And of course, that's just your like, limiting beliefs that I'm sure everyone has, but no. So then after I reached out, got that feedback, it was great feedback, I rather I wasn't, obviously, I was disappointed. But like you said, a lot of people, when they get denied, are kind of turned off. And like, maybe would like go the other way. But I was just more intrigued, and I was more like, on board. I sent like, a really nice email back, and I told her, I was like, "I'm gonna continue to, like, watch your job board. But if a new spot opens up in the future, like, please do consider me." And so sure enough, I did watch their job board here and there. And I think it was two or three months after I initially applied for that role, that I happened to notice that the role was up again. And so I just reached out directly to the hiring manager before submitting an application, just to kind of express my interest. And right away she was like, "Oh yeah. Like, you were actually on my list of people to reach out to this week. I definitely would want you to reapply. If you could just go ahead and submit the application, we'll go through the process of interviewing again." So I did that. And then obviously, this time, I made it through the entire interview process, which was that initial interview with the hiring manager again. I did a mock demo. So big part of my job is doing demos for my company. So they just, you know, it's kind of a make sure you can do the job kind of thing. And then I had an interview with my manager's manager, and then the last kind of piece was a call with the CEO. So that was the steps.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:30

What was different? Do you know now what was different, or what took place behind the scenes, where you said, "No, we're not proceeding further than the process the first time", but then the second time allowed you to. I know from being behind the scenes in many different organizations, all different industries, there's a million different things that can come up that might create that situation. But I'm curious, do you now know what caused that, or what was happening behind the scenes?

Jenna Bias 27:57

Yeah, and I think this is valuable for people who are, like, "switching industries", which I was. A big, like, limiting belief for me was, you know, why, especially in this industry, I was like, "why would they want to hire a nurse? Like, my job is so different. And on paper, I'm missing some key things that they're looking for." And I think to an extent that is true, like there is certain things that they are hiring for in their new candidate. And I think the first time around, they found that candidate who had all those things. Things that I, you know, no matter how long of a nurse I was, I was never going to have, because they were totally out of my realm. But in the second time around, I think they're a little bit more lenient on what things are willing to give up in hiring a candidate because I'm exemplifying so much else in staying consistent with applying, building these relationships, staying committed to the company, I think those things like speak volume and so I think they knew that I was a good enough fit, even without maybe some of those key bullet points on the application because of the actions I was doing. So yeah, I think to answer your question in a more concise way, the first time around, there was like a perfect candidate who met all the bullet points that I was never going to have because of my experience, unless I went and got additional experience. And the second time around, I think because of my actions and they knew me, they were willing to kind of look beyond some of those bullet points that I missed because of what I had done leading up to that second interview.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:30

I think that is super cool. There is, well, it's no longer there. We had a section of the Happen To Your Career book, actually, that when I first wrote it, I think it was version three or four that was all about how to engineer the situation to become the perfect candidate that when a position actually opens up, then you're on the list for that hiring manager. And we ended up scrapping it for the final version of the book. But I think the concept is super true to what you experienced, even though they found somebody initially that they thought was going to be the right fit, and they were ready to go down that road, you had taken all of these little touch points, all of these different situations to where you literally were on their list when they opened it up again and they were going to call you if you didn't contact them, which is pretty cool. Nicely done. So what advice would you give to someone who's in the same type of situation where,go back a ways here, and maybe they're in the place where they've now decided they've done the hardest part, as you said, where they've decided, "okay, I know that I need to make a change", and now they're ready to make a change, and they're ready to find what is truly right for them?

Jenna Bias 30:52

Yeah, I think a few things, like, I kind of touched on this before, but getting specific whether, I mean, like I said, I think for some people, getting specific on your role could help, but for me, getting specific on the company is what helped most. But either way, I think getting specific is what's going to give you clarity, and it's going to allow you to get to the place that where I was, where I was putting all my eggs in one basket because I knew it was the right fit, rather than posting up on LinkedIn job boards and Indeed, and just putting your resume out there for umpteenth places like that has minimal effect. And I think people do that because they're not really sure what they want. They're not specific, so they're just kind of like hoping something's gonna stick. And it's just not a very effective approach. So I think once you get specific, you're able to kind of hone in on how you can be effective in getting the role you want. And then I think, which is funny coming for me, because I'm not typically this type of person, but being different, getting outside of your comfort zone, and kind of thinking outside the box, I had only ever applied to nursing jobs, that was my only career before this. And it's very cut and dry, it's very much, "Do you have the licensing? Do you live in the area? Do you have all the educational components?" It's not about creating relationships. It's not about putting yourself out there. So I didn't know that this whole side of the application process existed and was so impactful. But it is. It's like, when you go on LinkedIn or on job boards, and you look at a job and you see, oh, 300 applicants. For me, that was always really off putting because I'm just like, "Okay, I'm just one person. I'm just one application." Which you are. You are just one application. So if all you're doing is submitting your application, you're probably not gonna get it, just the odds are not in your favor, right? So I think in this job market, and in today's day and age, with just how like innovative people are, like you have to do something different if you wanna get to where you wanna be.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:54

Maybe, through this process, you have now become the type of person who is thinking differently and behaving differently. Who knows?

Jenna Bias 33:03

Yeah, man, that's true.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:06

I think it's such a great point, though, because I think that that's like a dividing line for people when you get 300 applicants in a single role, and shoot, we've had as many as 800 applicants in a single role here at Happen To Your Career, like, we're a relatively small organization. And arguably, not that many people in the world have heard about us, compared to like an Apple or Facebook or something else, Google. And that's a lot of applicants, and that can steer people two ways down the fork in the road where, "why even try because the odds are against me", or, as you said, recognizing that if there's 800 people there, you need to do something drastically different to be able to stand out, get attention, be able to help them understand why it might be worth their time. So that's super cool that you recognize that, and that you've learned that, and that maybe you're now on that way to becoming that type of person in the future.

Jenna Bias 34:03

I mean, I will say, I think a large part of learning was, you know, working with my coach, Phillip. And I think that's where, like, having a coach plays a great role of kind of bouncing those ideas off somebody and then just kind of building you up. I remember so many times I would like come to Phillip with my ideas, or, like, what I had written up, and he's like, "Jenna, you know, what to do. I'm literally just here to tell you to do it, like, to give you the confidence boost, or to give you, like, you know, just another set of eyes, to say, like, yes, that's a good idea." So I feel like a lot of times, just having that person to like, soundboard you is really helpful to kind of like, get you in the right direction.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:39

Even though I've been coaching for 20 plus years now, it still feels strange to me to some degree that we all need that, like that sounding board in one way or another. And that can literally be the difference between it happening in reality versus just staying a thought that maybe this is the right thing for me to do. And I suspect it might be. On one hand, even with a coach, it still requires that you're taking the steps forward. So really, really nice job. You've done amazing work. And I think that sometimes on these episodes, it's hard to represent in a 30 or 45 minute time period, just all of the work and the ups and downs and everything else that went into making a many month career change into something that arguably didn't fully have the resume experience for or whatever else it might be.

Jenna Bias 35:38

Yeah, I mean, I never would have got to where I am if I only did a month of work. It took several months. And I was, what's the word, I was a little hesitant, or, like, off put by the initial timelines of things. And I was like, "Oh, well, like, I'm a really hard worker, like, I will put in the work, and hopefully it'll happen sooner", but some things are out of your control. So it's like I could do all of the modules, and I could do the legwork of digging into my strengths and getting specific about what I wanted in a career and in a company, but I couldn't create the role, and I couldn't create the company's timeline for me, right? It had to be... it's a two ended spectrum. So it's like I was ready, but they needed to be ready too, and for my current situation, they weren't ready for me for six months. So I just feel like, you know, if you go into it, yes, work hard and be persistent, but know that you can't control the timeline.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:38

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:30

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 37:36

Everybody gets days where, you know, they hate their job, or things are not going well, or they might be a bit lower than they normally are. It's just hard to kind of tell people that that's how you feel almost every minute of every day. And I felt like my energy, it's just taken all of my energy just to get through the day. Never mind thinking about what I wanted to be doing and how to get out of it, that was way past me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:00

Since 2013, we've talked with many thousands of people about their career changes, about how they're thinking about work, about what has been great, what has been terrible, and everything in between. So consequently, we get a lot of insight into how people struggle with career change, as well as how they're successful in career change. Something I found really fascinating is when people have been struggling in the wrong career, in the wrong roles that are unfulfilling for many years, not just like one or two or three years, but many, many years, maybe even changing roles multiple times.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:46

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it, and if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player, so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, until next week. Adios, I'm out.