510: How To Turn Rejection Into An Opportunity With Your Ideal Organization



Jenna Bias, Onboarding Manager at Rupa Health

Jenna is an RN who had worked as a bedside nurse for her entire career. When she began to reach the point of burnout, she knew that in order to find fulfillment in her career, she needed to switch industries.

on this episode

Figuring out your next role can seem almost impossible if you’re trying to switch industries. Especially if all of your experience has been in the industry you are trying to leave. 

Jenna had been a bedside RN for her entire career, but no matter where she worked, she always felt misaligned. She knew she didn’t want to spend her life tolerating her career and that something had to change. 

Having her first child was the push she needed to go after what she really wanted, true career happiness. She wanted to set an example for her daughter that work didn’t have to suck, and she wanted the hours she was apart from her to be doing something she loved.

She felt lost in the possibilities of her next career and decided the best way to narrow it down for her situation was to focus on organizations. Jenna got really particular about what she wanted out of her next company:

  • An organization in the health space
  • A company that was having a big impact on people & making a difference for the better.
  • A company culture that matched her must-haves 
  • A flexible schedule, possibly working from home
  • Autonomy in her role

With this list. Jenna narrowed down her search to a list of 8 possible companies, 3 she was extremely interested in and one front-runner that she felt would be the perfect fit and felt really drawn to.  

Jenna decided to make her front-runner the priority and do everything she could to make connections and learn about that organization. 

She began reaching out to people who worked at her target organization on LinkedIn and through email and even sent a few Loom videos to hiring managers and the CEO. 

Initially, Jenna was rejected for the role that she really wanted at this organization. She followed up by asking what she could have done differently, and the hiring manager was extremely generous in her response. Ultimately, the job had gone to someone with more experience in the role she was applying for. 

Jenna didn’t let this rejection dissuade her from going after a role with her target organization. She took all of the advice the hiring manager gave her and doubled down. She kept in touch with people at the organization, continued learning about the company, and kept an eye on their job boards. 

When the same role was posted a few months later, Jenna applied again. She reached out to the hiring manager to let her know, and the hiring manager let her know they had actually been planning to reach out to her!

Jenna ended up landing the role the second time around! In this episode, you’ll learn all of the details that went into her making connections at the company she wanted to work for, using Loom videos and other tools to stand out,  going back after she got turned away and ultimately landing a role with her ideal organization in a completely new industry.

What you’ll learn

  • How to identify the right next step for your career when switching industries
  • The importance of persevering after rejection during a job search
  • How Jenna used Loom videos to get in the door of her dream organization

Jenna Bias 00:01

In this job market, and in today's day and age with just how innovative people are, like you have to do something different if you want to get to where you want to be.

Introduction 00:15

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more and ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:40

Imagine you open your email, and there in your inbox is a message from your ideal organization telling you about an open role they think you would be great for. After a well deserved celebratory dance break, of course, obviously, then you can pat yourself on the back because you made that happen. Okay, this might seem a little far fetched and seem sort of out there. But this could be your reality. Just months from now, there are ways to engineer situations to become the perfect candidate for your dream organization and then build relationships that get on the hiring managers outreach lists. All this, kind of, your reality. But you have to be willing to do things drastically different in order to stand out.

Jenna Bias 01:28

I think they're a little bit more lenient on what things are willing to give up in hiring a candidate, because I'm exemplifying so much else in staying consistent with applying, building these relationships, and staying committed to the company. I think those things, like, speak volume. And so I think they knew that I was a good enough fit even without maybe some of those key bullet points on the application because of the actions I was doing.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:56

That's Jenna Bias. Jenna is an RN who had worked as a bedside nurse for her entire career. When she began to reach the point of burnout, she knew that in order to find fulfillment in her career, she needed to switch industries. Jenna began really digging into what she wanted and needed out of her next career and narrowed down our search to just a handful of companies that she was really excited about. She then went above and beyond in her attempts to build relationships with people at her top target organization. You'll hear her talking about the strategy of using loom– a video messaging tool to reach out to multiple people at this company, including the CEO. Her persistence and determination ultimately got her out of bedside nursing and into a role with her ideal company. Jenna does an awesome job explaining all of the steps she took, the tactics she used, and how she got herself in front of this organization. Here she is going back to her original interest in the health and wellness industry.

Jenna Bias 02:56

I got my first degree in nutrition, and I really enjoyed it. Like I was your typical, like, nerd. I really enjoyed my classes. I loved working on group projects. And I think what it boiled down to at that time was the content, I was really interested in it. But then it came time to utilize that degree for a career and I was really stumped as most 22 year olds are. I kind of wrapped my brain, you know, I wanted to make a decision that was "stable", and that led me to nursing. So after my degree in nutrition, I got a second degree in nursing. And looking back, I think science we're all there, but it was not a good choice for me. Because contrary to my time studying nutrition at Cal Poly, I did not enjoy the content. No, I wouldn't say dreaded studying, but you know, just the joy wasn't there, how it was with nutrition. But I kind of ignored the red flags, continued on and ended up being a nurse. And of course, as I'm sure everyone can guess, that kind of misalignment continued into my career.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:08

Yeah. Where did you start to recognize and pay attention to those red flags? Where did you start to first learn that maybe this isn't quite right for me?

Jenna Bias 04:18

Yeah, I think for a long time I chalked it up to, like, situation. So for my first nursing job, fresh out of nursing school, I was working in an emergency department. I was working 12 hour shifts. I was working the night shift and I had an hour-long commute. So just to like put that into perspective, I would leave for work at 5:30pm, get to work around 6:30, get ready, work the 12 hour shift till 7am, give report, drive home at 7:30am, shower, go to bed from like 9am to 4pm and then do it all over. So I recognized early on that it was not sustainable regardless of if I loved the work or not, I'll get to that in a bit, but just the situational aspect of it. But at the time, I was a new grad nurse just kind of doing what I thought I needed to do to get my foot in the door. And so then fast forward, when I got my second nursing job, it was a hospital closer to home, I was working eight hour shifts, I was working days, I liked my co-workers. So a lot of those key pieces had changed for me. So here, I thought this was gonna make a big difference for me. I actually remember my husband when I got the job, saying something along the lines of like, "Oh, this is great. Like, I feel like you'll probably be in this job with this hospital for a long time, because of all the situational aspects." But I soon realized that the work was the same. And so that level of unhappiness was the same. For me, it wasn't about the logistics, like I didn't care if I was working long hours. Yes, not having a long commute was nice. But for me, the work was, not only not filling my cup but it was like draining my cup, like draining. So I think it took a few jobs for me to realize, "okay, it's not the situation, it's the work." And just kind of coming to terms with that, and getting over the barrier of making the decision to finally leave this career, even though I spent so much time, effort and money to get in here.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:24

Once you've made the decision that you're going to transition, what did it look like for you to decide where you wanted to focus your time and energy? What did that look like?

Jenna Bias 06:36

Yeah, that part was tough, too. I remember telling Phillip, my coach, in the beginning that... He asked, you know, "what's some, like a piece of advice to me, that I can use along the way to kind of keep you on track or like bring you back in, you know, if I ever feel like we're getting off the right path?" And I told him, I was like, "I love a lot of things, I have a lot of interest, I tend to be a somewhat, like, indecisive person." And then I gave him the example of like, when I go to a restaurant, like, I always like to try new things. And there's so much that looks good. But a lot of times, I pick something and I'm like, "Oh man, this wasn't, like, as good as I thought." And so I told Phillip, I was like, "just remind me to like, just pick the cheeseburger." And what that meant to me was basically like, pick something that I'm rooted with, that I know is always going to be something that I'm passionate about, and bring me back to like, what aligns with me rather than kind of getting lost in all these possibilities. So that really helps because I felt like when I was leaving nursing that there was so many possibilities, it was a little bit overwhelming. And I didn't know how to hone in on exactly where it is I wanted to go. Which I'm sure it's probably... I know, there's some, kind of, probably two types of people in the career change path, like, one, where they want to leave their career and they know exactly where they want to go. And for me, I knew like wholeheartedly, I wanted to leave, but I didn't know where I wanted to go. And I think that probably is a big barrier for people leaving initially too. Because, oh, not only do I want to leave my career, but I don't have a plan of where I'm going next. Like that's a hard pill to swallow. So, for me, just kind of going back to my roots, you know, with the whole, I've always been interested in nutrition, always been interested in health and wellness, how can I take that forward and get specific on what I want to do in my career, that helped me a lot.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:36

I'm curious what made that so helpful? And why do you think that that worked and jived with you?

Jenna Bias 08:41

Yeah, totally. I think it's two parts. The first part is, I got so lost in all the possibilities of different career types. I didn't know which one was going to be a good fit for me. And it wasn't until we kind of took the title, I guess, the career title off the table, that I finally started to get some clarity. So I realized it wasn't so much important of, like, what my next career title was going to be. But it was more important for me what I wanted in a company. So I got really specific about that. I knew I wanted to work still within the health space. I always loved, like more of the functional medicine side compared to the conventional medicine world that I was working in, in the hospital. I wanted a company that was having a big impact on people, that was like making a difference for the better. That was a big thing for me was, yes, I was working in a hospital setting and critical to helping people but it was a bit of a broken system. And there's much like a revolving door kind of analogy with the hospital. So moving forward, I really wanted a company that you know had a truly positive impact on people. I was really specific on the type of culture I wanted to be in. Some ideals but not deal breakers were types of schedule. I, you know, was kind of intrigued by this whole work from home, where you looked with COVID and I like the flexibility of it. And I really wanted a big thing for me was autonomy and my role. As a nurse, you're kind of binded by the red tape of a hospital and it dictates your day. I really wanted a role where I could kind of lead myself and have responsibilities that I took care of on my own. So none of those things point to one role, right? But you could, theoretically, find companies that really emphasize those things or prioritize those things. And when I did that, and got, you know, there's several other things that I got really specific about, it ultimately led me to like three companies. I think I had a list of, I think, eight companies that were possibilities. But really only three that I wanted to entertain the idea of looking into, and only one that really, like, spoke to me, seems so weird. When I found the company that I work for now, I just had this feeling like, "oh my gosh, this is the company I'm gonna work for next", which is strange, because I never... I'm not really like a, love at first sight or like, blanking on the word. But you know what I mean? Like, I'm not that type of person where I think things just happen like that. So it was kind of interesting.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:20

As you started investigating this and other organizations, what caused you to realize that all the work that you had done with your ideal career profile, or to define what it is that you actually wanted in your next opportunity and beyond, what caused you to believe that "no, this is actually, in fact, where I want to be and what I'm looking for."?

Jenna Bias 11:44

Yeah, actually, I never thought of this before, but kind of reminded me when I was talking about how I felt when I was a college student studying nutrition. That's how I felt, like, when I found this company, I mean, I did a ton of research on them, I would read up about the CEO, and I read about their trajectory. And I would look at their website and just kind of look at what they had going on most recently, and it was interesting to me. Like, I felt like I did when I was back studying nutrition. So I think that's how a job should feel like. If you're really interested in it, you're just going to perform better, be more engaged. And that's how I was even just learning about the company, let alone working for them. So I think that was a big green flag for me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:31

That's interesting. And it's interesting that you're picking that up now, in hindsight too, that it was the same type of feelings. One of the things that we do, behind the scenes as coaches, where we're often trained to hone in on those types of recreations of the feelings, if you will. So where have you found that type of joy that you're looking for? Where have you found that type of environment or situation in the past? Okay, now, how do we identify where you can experience that in the future? And then how can we use that as a tool for measurement to indicate that you're heading in the right direction? And it's not a perfect science by any means, but it sounds like that's part of what you're keying in on.

Jenna Bias 13:15

Yeah. And I'm glad you point that out. Because I think at the time that I was creating my company outreach list, I knew that my company was my number one. But it wasn't until Phillip was like, "Well, why are we..." I was creating this to-do list of how I was going to reach out to several companies at once. And he's like, "Well, no'', he's like, "Clearly, you feel some type of way about this company, like, let's hone in, let's focus here, like, I want you to put your efforts here." And he was the one that really, I think, more than I did at the time saw my draw to this company. And in my mind, I was like, "Well, no, I can't, like, put all my eggs in one basket. And I can't, you know, that might be unproductive if I'm just reaching out to one company." And I realized throughout this process, that's one of the big takeaways for me was, you gotta get me on job boards, applying to all these different jobs, but it's never going to work because you're not fully presenting yourself for maybe the job that you really do want. And I think once I recognize that if I really dedicated myself to this, what I wanted, then I could get it if I navigated the right way and communicated myself in the right way. So yeah, you're right. I think Phillip kind of picked up on that. It really is what kind of led me to them even more, because before I was kind of trying to like spread myself thin across the board of all companies

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:42

It's very much against conventional wisdom. Like I heard you throw a couple of clips out there, like don't put all your eggs in one basket and two or three more. But if you go after what you want, and you're focusing most of your energy on that, it becomes a lot more possible and more likely that you're going to get to what you want, which of course, sounds logical, you know, after the fact and when you say it that way. But when you're experiencing it, and you're going through that, you've got all the emotions, and everything else that is sort of stopping you from, you know, heading towards where you actually want to go. So I appreciate you sharing that. Also, one of the things that I know was a part of your story, is you did a phenomenal job, not just putting effort towards this particular organization that you had decided that, "Hey, this is it. This is where I want to be. And I want to figure out if that can happen first." But also, you had a great reach out strategy. Tell me a little bit about that. What prompted that? What was the situation? And tell me a little bit about what you did in the nitty gritty to be able to begin building relationships at this organization?

Jenna Bias 15:52

Yeah, I think the first part, which I kind of touched on, was like just doing a ton of research. And that honestly came from, like, just my natural interest in the company. But I think in the long term: A, it helped me realize, yes, this is where I want to be. And B, it just helped me foster those relationships down the road. Because I was genuinely interested in these people that I was talking to, I knew about them, I knew about the company. So that just helped be more candid down the line, because I didn't feel like I was, like, meeting strangers.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:22

So when you say research, you were researching the individuals in the organization. How did you go about that research?

Jenna Bias 16:29

Yeah, first, it just started out as company research. And then it kind of led to, you know, who my CEO is... So the company is technically a startup. They've been around for a couple years now. But because they're a startup kind of based in San Francisco in a very, what's the word, they're in the functional medicine space, right. So it's a very upcoming topic that's on the rise. So because of that, Rupa has been mentioned on several other podcasts, my CEO has been on several other podcasts. So just one step of research led to another and I found myself just learning a lot about the company that way. And then furthermore, when I decided to apply to certain positions, like I mentioned, in their application process, they often would have a little blurb about the hiring manager there. They're very transparent about who would be hiring. And so, and I almost feel like, it's almost like an invitation. Like, we're telling you, "Hey, I'm the person doing the hiring here. I'm introducing myself to you via the application." I almost felt like it would be a disservice to not then go introduce myself like they're almost asking you what I felt and so and I think for me, that made it a little less uncomfortable, just kind of like, cold emailing, cold reaching out. But I kept it light, I kind of echoed their casual on this, which, for me, was more comfortable than, you know, you're typically taught to be like…

Scott Anthony Barlow 17:51

"Dear so and so. I found your company. Well, I was searching on LinkedIn. And I..."

Jenna Bias 17:56

Exactly. Yeah, so that made it a little bit more comfortable. So as far as reaching out, like, via LinkedIn, or email, that wasn't super challenging, it almost like I said, seemed invited. But then I did kind of take it to the next step and created a few loom videos to just kind of further introduce myself, but further expressed my interest, like face to face, because I mean, you can say so much in an email, but I feel like until you hear someone out and like, see their genuine like expression, I feel like that goes so much further. And at the end of the day, lots of people are sending emails. So I feel like if you can create a little video and kind of put a face to the name, I think, for me that ended up being, like, priceless.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:40

Well, it was not perfect for every single situation. But in your situation, I think it was highly effective. Because, one, as you said, you can put a face to the name, which creates a more personal type of approach. It also, in your case, it was a casual company already, like that's how they operate, you had already done the research to indicate that that wasn't just a thing that they did on their website, like they operate this way, right. So in your reach out, if you're modeling that in the same tone, it strategically feels to them like you fit and more importantly, you've already done the work yourself to realize that that's what you wanted. So you're simply answering their call to help them understand why you're a good fit in ways that they don't even necessarily... it's not like on a resume or anything like that. It just feels like that.

Jenna Bias 19:32

I think too, I didn't mention this, but the fear that goes along with it is like, oh, the potential of them not responding which; A, I realize now it really doesn't matter. They get so much influx of information. It's like, who cares if they don't respond. But for me, my CEO did end up acknowledging my video and just sent me, like, a simple email back, telling me good luck on the interview process. And from there, I ended up applying, I think four different times through a few different roles, and every step of the way, I just shot her an email updating her on my journey. And she responded to every single email, not being like, nothing, like, extraordinary, but just the response in itself was like, to me, again, just exemplified, "This is a company I want to work for. Here's this busy CEO taking time out of her day to just shoot me a quick email acknowledging the work that I'm putting in to try and be a part of her organization." And then, yeah, as far as applying to multiple roles, it just came down to, I knew this was the company I wanted to work for. So again, rather than spreading myself thin across different companies, I was like, "No, I'm just going to focus here." And even though I actually got denied initially for my current role, obviously, in the end, it ended up paying off when I applied the second time, and I think a large part of that was because I had already touched base with the hiring manager. We did already kind of have that rapport, and yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:00

Okay, so let's dig into that for just a second because I think that's important. First of all, I will say most people in the world after they get turned down, are not going to go back and they're not going to continue to work at it. Also, one of the things that we see over and over again is, that is something that is relatively normal. I cannot tell you, well, actually, for people who've listened to more than one episode, you may have already heard that story a few times along the way, because it does happen relatively frequently. So kudos to you for continuing to persist. And also, what did that look like? Take me through, I think you said you applied for... how many did you interview for? What did the process look like?

Jenna Bias 21:44

Yeah, so one of them that I applied for, initially, to be frank, I knew was not a, not it wasn't a good fit, I was just like, highly under qualified. It didn't so much... I think there's a lot of situations where you can pull from your past work, and kind of more fit to fit new roles. Sure. In this situation, when I tried to do that, it was a stretch, to say the least. But I gave it a go. And that was one of the situations where I did create a limb for that hiring manager, as well as their recruiter, and I sent her a LinkedIn message just introducing myself. And she was very sweet in her response and transparent in the fact that, you know, I probably wasn't going to have what they were looking for in that role. But again, it was the response for me of how they handled it that didn't turn me away, because they were so inviting, encouraging. Not everyone's gonna be a good fit for every role, so I didn't take it personally. Late, fast forward, I applied to one other role that I never actually heard back from, because I think what happened is I applied to my current role. And at that point, I had made contact with the recruiter. So I went through the recruiter, like a phone screening, and then got to the first round interview with the hiring manager, which went great. I really connected and talked about the role, and it was something that I thought it'd be, like, a really good fit. And then I didn't make it to the next two phases of the interview. So then at that point, we exchanged some emails, again, when I got the denial email, I asked her just for positive feedback, you know, "What can I do differently? Any recommendations moving forward?" And she sent me, like, a novel, which was super awesome. I could tell she took, like, time out her day to give me feedback. Who am I going to be working at her company, and she doesn't really even know me. But I think that's because when we had our interview, like we were able to connect, even though I didn't end up being the pick for the role that time, she could still, you know, connect with me on a personal level, and we still learn a lot about each other. So to me that first interview was still a win because we foster, like, a relationship.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:51

Yeah, we can dig into that for just a second. Because I think that's a frustration for so many people, like, "hey, I'll ask for feedback." And I won't get anything. But you got a novel worth of feedback, because, not by accident, and yes, this is an amazing organization. And clearly, they value people who are interested in them, but also they don't have infinite amounts of time too. So the reason this worked is, you'd already started to establish some kind of beginning relationship with the CEO. I'm sure those emails were probably forwarded, I don't know, but probably they were forwarded over to recruiting or maybe they were BCC'd or something else along those lines. You had continuous touchpoints all along the way. Maybe they talk behind the scenes, maybe they didn't. But then you had, as you said, began to build a connection during that interview, and you had focused on that. So you now have the beginnings of relationships. So now, it's not just some random candidate, it asked me for feedback. It is this person that I know and had a great time with. And that's totally different than when you go to make and ask than just some random person that's out there. So I wanted to take a moment and just break that down because you did a really nice job allowing it to get to that point so that it worked when you went and asked for feedback.

Jenna Bias 25:08

Yeah. I think a big thing for me, and I'm sure it's probably for other people as well, is because I had all those touch points, and institutions of like asking for feedback, no big thing for me was like, kind of a fear component. I almost felt like, "oh my gosh, am I reaching out too much?" You said, oh, they're probably talking behind the scenes, like in a good way. But in my mind, I was like, man, are they like, "Oh, that Jenna girl, she applied again."

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:34

Never hire that one.

Jenna Bias 25:36

Get rid of her. And of course, that's just your, like, limiting beliefs that I'm sure everyone has, but no. So then after I reached out, got that feedback, it was, you know, great feedback, I wasn't, obviously, I was disappointed. But like you said, a lot of people when they get denied are kind of turned off and, like, maybe would like, go the other way. But I was just more intrigued, and I was more like on board, I sent like a really nice email back. And I told her, I was like, "I'm gonna continue to like, watch your job board. But if a spot opens up in the future, like, please do consider me." And so sure enough, I did watch their job board here and there. And I think it was two or three months after I initially applied for that role that I happened to notice that the role was up again. And so I just reached out directly to the hiring manager before submitting an application just to kind of express my interest, and right away she was like, "Oh yeah, like you were actually on my list of people to reach out to this week. I definitely would want you to reapply. If you could just go ahead and submit an application, like, go through the process of interviewing again." So I did that. And then obviously, this time, I made it through the entire interview process, which was that initial interview with the hiring manager again, I did a mock demo. So a big part of my job is doing demos for my company. So they just, you know, it's kind of a, make sure you can do the job kind of thing. And then I had an interview with my manager's manager. And then the last kind of piece was a call with the CEO. So that was the steps.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:09

What was different? Do you know now what was different or what took place behind the scenes where you said, "No, we're not proceeding further in the process the first time", but then the second time, allowed you... I know from being behind the scenes in many different organizations, all different industries, there's a million different things that can come up that might create that situation. But I'm curious, do you now know, what caused that or what was happening behind the scenes?

Jenna Bias 27:36

Yeah, and I think this is valuable for people who are, like, "switching industries", which I was. A big, like, limiting belief for me was, you know, why... and especially in this industry, I was like, "why would they want to hire a nurse? Like, my job is so different." And on paper, I'm missing some key things that they're looking for. And I think to an extent that is true, like there’s certain things that they are hiring for in their new candidate. And I think the first time around, they found that candidate who had all those things, things that I, you know, no matter how long of a nurse I was, I was never going to have because they were totally out of my realm. But the second time around, I think they're a little bit more lenient on what things are willing to give up in hiring a candidate, because I'm exemplifying so much else in staying consistent with applying, building these relationships, staying committed to the company. I think those things, like, speak volume. And so I think they knew that I was a good enough fit even without maybe some of those key bullet points on the application, because of the actions I was doing. So yeah, I think to answer your question, in a more concise way, the first time around, there was a perfect candidate who met all the bullet points that I was never going to have, because of my experience unless I went and got additional experience. And the second time around, I think, because of my actions, and they knew me, they were willing to kind of look beyond some of those bullet points that I missed because of what I had done leading up to that second interview.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:10

I think that is super cool. There is, well, it's no longer there. We had a section of the Happen To Your Career book, actually, that when I first wrote it, I think it was version three or four, that was all about how to engineer the situation to become the perfect candidate that when a position actually opens up, then you're on the list for that hiring manager. And we ended up scrapping it for the final version of the book. But I think the concept is super true to what you experienced, even though, you know, they found somebody initially that they thought was going to be the right fit and they were ready to go down that road, you had taken all of these little touch points, all of these different situations to where you literally were on their list when they opened it up again, and they were going to call you if you didn't contact them, which is pretty cool. Nicely done. So what advice would you give to someone who's in the same type of situation? Where if go back aways here, and it may be they're in the place where they've now decided they've done the hardest part, as you said, where they've decided, okay, I know that I need to make a change and now they're ready to make a change, and they're ready to find what is truly right for them.

Jenna Bias 30:34

Yeah, I think a few things. Like I kind of touched on this before, but getting specific, weather, I mean, like I said, I think for some people getting specific on your role could help. But for me getting specific on the company is what helps most but either way, I think getting specific is what's going to give you clarity, and it's going to allow you to get to the place where I was putting all my eggs in one basket, because I knew it was the right fit, rather than posting up on LinkedIn job boards and indeed, and just putting your resume out there for places like that has minimal effect, and I think people do that, because they're not really sure what they want. They're not specific. So they're just kind of like hoping something's gonna stick. And it's just not a very effective approach. But I think once you get specific, you're able to kind of hone in on how you can be effective in getting the role you want. And then I think, which is funny coming for me, because I'm not typically this type of person, but being different, getting outside of your comfort zone and kind of thinking outside the box, I had only ever applied to nursing jobs. That was my only career before this. And it's very cut and dry. It's very much, "Do you have the licensing? Do you live in the area? Do you have all the educational components?" It's not about creating relationships, it's not about putting yourself out there. So I didn't know that this whole side of the application process existed and was so impactful, but it is. It's like when you go on LinkedIn, or on job boards, and you look at a job and you see, "oh 300 applicants", for me, that was always really off putting, because I'm just like, "Okay, I'm just one person. I'm just one application." which you are. You are just one application. So if all you're doing is submitting your application, you're probably not gonna get it, just the odds are not in your favor, right? So I think, in this job market, and in today's day and age with just how, like, innovative people are, like, you have to do something different if you want to get to where you want to be.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:36

Maybe through this process, you have now become the type of person who is thinking differently and behaving differently. Who knows?

Jenna Bias 32:45

Not me, that's true.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:49

I think it's such a great point, though, because I think that that's like a dividing line for people when you get 300 applicants in a single role. And shoot, we've had as many as 800 applicants in a single role here at Happen To Your Career, like we're a relatively small organization. And arguably not that many people in the world have heard about us compared to, like, an Apple or a Facebook or something else, Google. And that's a lot of applicants. And that can steer people two ways down the fork in the road where, why even try because the odds are against me, or as you said, recognizing that if there's 800 people there, and you need to do something drastically different to be able to stand out, get attention, be able to help them understand why it might be worth their time. So that's super cool that you recognize that and that you've learned that and that maybe you're now on that way to becoming that type of person in the future.

Jenna Bias 33:45

I mean, I will say I think a large part of learning was, you know, working with my coach Phillip, and I think that's where, like, having a coach plays a great role of kind of bouncing those ideas off somebody, and then just kind of building you up. I remember so many times, I would, like, come to Phillip with my ideas, or like what I had written up and he's like, "Jenna, you know what to do. I'm literally just here to tell you to do it. Like to give you the confidence boost, to give you like, you know, just another set of eyes to say like, "yes, that's a good idea." So I feel like a lot of times just having that person to like soundboard you is really helpful to kind of, like, get you in the right direction.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:21

Even though I've been coaching for 20 plus years now, it still feels strange to me, to some degree, that we all need that, like, that sounding board in one way or another. And that can literally be the difference between happening and reality versus just stating a thought that maybe this is the right thing for me to do. And I suspect it might be. So that's, on one hand, even with a coach it still requires that you're taking the steps forward. So really, really nice job. You've done amazing work. And I think that sometimes on these episodes, it's hard to represent in a 30 or 45 minute time period, just all of the work and the ups and downs and everything else that went into making a many month career change into something that arguably didn't fully have the resume experience for or whatever else it might be.

Jenna Bias 35:20

Yeah, I mean, I never would have got to where I am if I only did a month of work. It took several months. And I was, what's the word, I was a little hesitant or like put off by the initial timelines and things. And I was like, "Oh well, I'm a really hard worker, like, I will put in the work and hopefully it'll happen sooner." But some things are out of your control. So it's like I could do all of the modules, and I could do the legwork of digging into my strengths and getting specific about what I wanted in a career and in a company, but I couldn't create the role and I couldn't create the company's timeline for me, right? It's a two ended spectrum. So it's like, I was ready, but they needed to be ready too. And for my current situation, they weren't ready for me for six months. So I just feel like you know, if you go into it, yes, work hard and be persistent. But know that you can't control the timeline.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:21

Hey, something I want to let you know, the seemingly impossible career change stories that you hear on the podcast, are actually from people just like you who are listening to this podcast and decided to take action and have a conversation with our team. If you want to implement what you heard, and you want to completely change your life and your career, then let's figure out how we can help. Here's what I would suggest, just take your phone right now, open it up, go to your email app, and type me an email, Scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to the right person on our team and you can have a conversation with us. We'll try and understand your goals and what you want to accomplish in your career no matter where you're at. And we can figure out the very best way that we can help you and support you in your situation. So open that up right now and send me an email with 'Conversation' in the subject line to Scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:15

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 37:21

I think they were kind of shocked that, you know, this is what I'm looking for, and not like I was just a person begging for the job or answering all the questions the way that they wanted. I was just like, "This is what I'm looking for in a position, in a company, in a company culture." And I honestly think that was what sealed it for me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:44

One of the biggest obstacles when making a career change to more meaningful work is lack of time and energy. How do you find the time to make a change if you have a full time job, a partner, children a social life, if you're like many people at this stage of their career, and you're trying to juggle all of these commitments on top of making a career change, the solution is not only allocating the appropriate time and resources, but also setting the other people in your life up for success so that they can support you. At HTYC, we do this by using what we call a "master schedule". This tool forces you to intentionally decide what your average week looks like and needs to look like so that you can successfully focus on career change. Think about it as a budget for your time. It also gives you the language and visuals to explain the support you'll need to your partner.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:41

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.

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