357: Breaking Down the Difficulties of Career Change with Lisa Lewis

Lisa Lewis 0:01
How much do you know about what that job and what that world is like on a day to day basis? Because the idea of getting to do the work versus the type of tasks and the type of skills that successful execution will then make you really successful in that role. This can be really different.

Introduction 0:26
This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what it does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:50
Hey, this is Scott Anthony Barlow, and welcome back to Happen To Your Career. We have a pretty exciting episode for today, and I have with me back on the show for time number three, believe it or not, we've only had so many guests make a third appearance and back by popular demand. She's more popular than me on this podcast and I am mostly excited about that, a little bit jealous, but mostly excited. I want to welcome back to the show to talk about, how to make really difficult career changes? Lisa Lewis, how are you doing?

Lisa Lewis 01:32
Hey, Scott, and hello to the HTYC family and also I'm definitely not more popular than you are, for the record. One of these days I'm gonna get to podcast interview you and ask you about all sorts of random questions that I'm sure everybody wants to know, including bragging about your kids. So get excited.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:52
I don't think we have enough podcasts digital recording real for that. So by that just go hours and hours and hours, at least.

Lisa Lewis 02:02
Only one way to find out.

Lisa Lewis 02:03
How cool.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:03
Only one way to find out. Okay, we will do that episode. You and I have been talking about that for a while like, "when are we gonna do something..." Okay, we'll make it happen because that's what we do around here, make stuff happen. So you have though, in all seriousness, you have the most downloaded episode at this point. Your first one, episode 147. By the way, if you haven't heard Lisa before, go back listen to Episode 147. It's a good one. It is following the breadcrumbs to your dream career. Very, very awesome. And we're back. We're back for more. So...

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:07
Did you know that?

Lisa Lewis 02:11
It's just really fun. I didn't know that. It's just I, you know, like the reason we do what we do is to be helpful and to get people in motion. So that's just super cool news. Thanks.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:55
Yeah, you're welcome. Drop that good news on you, as we're recording for pure reaction. Okay, so today, our task is to help people understand why these difficult career changes are so difficult. Well, maybe not exactly like that, because that we don't want to show them where the water while they're drowning. But instead, we want to help people understand the reasons behind why difficult career changes can be so difficult. And once you understand that, some easier ways to go about it and how to actually make the change. So that's a lot to ask. I mean, we could spend, what? 17 or 19 or 147 hours on just those topics, but I want to pick out some of the most or the biggest reasons why career change is difficult in the first place. So that we can help people understand what's going on behind the scenes, the stuff that they don't see those forces that are at work, if you will, and then help them understand what to actually do about it. Sound good?

Lisa Lewis 04:01
Yeah, it's a big agenda, but I'm excited.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:04
Okay, all right, we're gonna do this. If we, let's take a couple examples here because we get so many people and in fact, oh my goodness, we've had, like 2500 people added to the Happen To Your Career family in like the last 10 days, which is...

Lisa Lewis 04:25
That's amazing.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:26
Nutty.

Lisa Lewis 04:27
High new family members. That's so cool.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:30
Yeah, that blows me away. I'm super, super excited about that. We've got lots of new people that need our help. So, no pressure or anything, right. Yeah. The... let's take a couple of examples because I've been emailing and talking to some of these people. And I wanna make this really, really relevant here. So one of the biggest things that I've seen again and again, is people that are really, really struggling to figure out, "how to go from one type of career to something completely different when they don't necessarily know exactly what that looks like." They don't necessarily know exactly what they want to be doing. They've got some ideas of what's not so exciting about their current situation, right. But they're not necessarily sure what they would like to do and how they want to spend their time differently. So, have you heard of that problem before, Lisa?

Lisa Lewis 05:31
Yeah. Oh, all the time. And I mean, I feel like I was facing that same problem when I was thinking about my own career change. I knew I didn't want to do digital marketing, and I said, I'm gonna go become a mental health therapist. And the first thought that sort of comes to mind whenever I hear about this sort of hard left career pivot with folks that I'm working with, the first question that always pops up for me is, "how much do you know about what that job and what that world is like on a day to day basis?" Because the idea of getting to do the work versus the type of tasks and the type of skills that successful execution will then make you really successful in that role. Those can be really different.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:27
Really, really and even.... and that's a great point too, because when you, I don't know, mental health therapist, that is probably more similar from one organization to another than some other types of jobs even. But still, you know, any job that you take, like if you are a digital marketer, let's say, you know that looks completely different, you might be doing coordination and, I don't know, putting up blog posts on one company. And then if you're in a completely different company, it might be still even more difficult. So it compounds knowing what it's going to be like with this dynamic sort of moving target type thing that happens when you go from company to company when it's based just on that job title in the first place, right?

Lisa Lewis 07:24
Oh, yeah, yeah, falling in love with a title I think can be a risk factor. And if you're getting really excited or enthused about a specific title, or a specific sort of new career that maybe you know somebody who does, but you haven't necessarily gotten any hands on experience doing yourself through volunteering, internships, apprenticing, shadowing, anything like that. My first thought is, it's gonna make your transition to that career so much easier if you can put some sort of relevant experience on your resume. So why not take a peek for opportunities to give it a test drive and see what it's like to be in that world, you know, whether you get your hands on or not, because that'll give you a much much better sense of you know, since there is no such thing as a completely perfect, you know, unicorns and rainbows job every single hour of every single day, it'll give you a sense of what some of the ups and downs are, and see if it's the type of thing where you're not going to mind the downs because the ups are so good and they're so aligned with who you are and what your gifts are.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:34
I get stuck on unicorns and rainbows. Jack, we talked about unicorns and rainbows on the podcast, now I can't do it later we've already checked that off. Disappointing. Steal my thunder. I see how you are. This is why you have the most downloaded episode.

Lisa Lewis 08:53
You know, I think though that like the dream of having the unicorns and rainbows career can be really seductive, like really intriguing and entrancing and can almost pull you away from recognizing or acknowledging any of the other good things or any of the other things that you like in your current job, which then can make it even harder to know if you're jumping when you're making a career change into something else that's going to fit you or if you have a sort of walk so far away from the sort of things that you like and that you're good at, in past roles, that you're almost losing the sense of self in pursuit of the rainbow unicorn, sort of utopia dream.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:42
So that's really interesting. And I have seen that happen again and again and again. I was just on a call the other day with a somebody who pretty badly needed our help and she was saying the exact same thing. She's it was talking about her current role, and, you know, she gets fairly well paid. And she also enjoys a lot of aspects of it, but really had this kind of overwhelming feeling that she wanted something more and there could be something much better for her out there. So it's sort of these nagging forces from both sides. And she was trying to decide, hey, do I just have grass is greener syndrome or whatever you want to call that, right? Unicorns and rainbows syndrome. Unicorn and rainbow syndrome, like you, I don't know something, rainbows... URBS? I don't know, something like that. We're gonna make up a term. But I think that, that's real because people have this sort of, "should I stay or should I go conundrum" and is it going to be any better if I go? So how do you think about that?

Lisa Lewis 10:59
Well, the way I start thinking about that is trying to ground yourself in what you know to be true about yourself. So even backing up to the job that you're currently in, or the job you're most recently in, there was a reason that was appealing and interesting to you. So I would say, dig back into what the things were about the job that initially spoke to you. Was it opportunities to get to manage and grow a team? Was it that you were going to have a lot of autonomy, that you were going to have a lot of access to the numbers and the data? And think about those different data points, those different sort of hints at what speaks to you and to who you at least were at that point. And you can do this sort of realignment reevaluation of based on who you are now, skills and strengths that you have and your values and the way you want to live your life. Do those things still appeal to you? And if so, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater and abandon everything and just make a jump into another role because you're currently overworked, underpaid, too stressed, burnt out whatever it is, but tap back into the things that sustain you and fulfill you and fill you up and see how you can sniff around to find those in a next opportunity. And I want to say something because you just mentioned, you know, somebody can be in a fairly high paying position and feel a lot of stress and strain and pain there. And I think that the golden handcuffs syndrome or the golden handcuffs mindset, can make career change really, really hard for folks, especially for top performers. Because there's this secret little pervasive lie that we tell ourselves, which is that, if I make a career change, there's no way I will ever make this much money ever again. Therefore, I have to stay in this role, even though I hate it, because I have a standard of living that requires this much money. And I think I mean, I'm sure you can speak to this too. But what I've found is that the more that you can recalibrate your mindset, to instead of look for either/or situations and answers, but to look for inclusive answers of, let me open up my creativity and my sort of radar in the world for roles where I can get more of the types of activities and the types of strength, usage and development that I love, and make enough money to be able to continue on my life at the level of happiness and the level of living that I want. I think just that mindset shift can be hugely powerful and open up all kinds of interesting possibilities that couldn't possibly be on your radar, if you think about the world in this binary, either or black or white kind of way.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:19
That's really interesting. And I absolutely love that line of thinking. Actually, even if you go way back to when we had Dan Miller, on the podcast, it's been quite a while it's been like, three plus years at this point. But he talked about and thinking, as opposed to or thinking, you know, I don't like A or B decisions. A or B, decisions suck. I like A and B decisions. Those are so much better. How do we do that? And I think that's a lot of what you're talking about. But one of the things that I absolutely love from that is when you start thinking in that regard, that line, that, whatever you'd like to call it. As soon as you start asking the questions of, how do I get both? How could we make that happen? Ding, ding, ding, ding. Then you can actually start working backwards and you can start filling in steps to be able to see how can we do both. Or even if you're not quite that far along and say, okay, well, what are the possibilities? How could that actually be possible? So here's a great example too, we've got, I'm not going to tell her entire situation but mentioned her name Jenny, in our career change boot camp, and Jenny was and has been for a long time in a field where she is not rewarded for some of her natural strengths and inclinations. And I'm trying to not share too much about her situation, but I think she's got a really really interesting story and she's just recently made some huge headway. Anyhow, so she... she's very much a people person, very much a collaborator and she's in this role where it doesn't require collaboration and in fact, those natural strengths of being around people and implement interact and build relationships with people and doing so very effortlessly. They are not rewarded in the sector that she's in. They're probably even discouraged, I would probably say that, it's just they don't place value on them where she's at. And small wonder, it feels like those are... it feels like, you know, it's a bad fit for a job, shocking surprise there, right? No rainbows, no butterflies, no unicorns, do not pass go, do not collect $200. So she's had a really really, really difficult time seeing how this stuff could be valuable in another industry, another sector, another organization, another company, whatever it is, and that was part of her hang up for a very, very, very long time. And also couldn't see some of the, even if she could get there, couldn't see some of the steps in between. So really, really, really proud of her because just recently, in order for her to be able to do some of that exploring, like you're talking about, and being able to begin testing, if you will, in new industries and new sectors, she went and had a conversation with her boss about transitioning out and did so in a way where it was very much a partnership and like she's not gonna walk out of the building and anything else but she had to be able to see how she could have an AMX solution as opposed to our solution long before she was able to even consider doing that and making it a realistic possibility. So, paves the way.

Lisa Lewis 17:58
About that. Yeah, oh, absolutely. And something else actually that I think is worth mentioning is, you just gave an example of somebody who's thinking about career change, and who brought their boss into the conversation. And I think if you are in a position to be able to bring your current employer into the conversation at all about a potential career change, it is definitely worth at least considering and at least exploring. And I say this because one of the biggest things that I hear from folks about a reason they can't make a career change is because they are exhausted, like burnt out, feel like they're working all the time, don't have a spare second to even think about themselves. And that is a really hard place to make any sort of change from especially a strategic and thoughtful change, you know, it's a good place to put in your two weeks notice without having anything else lined up place. But like we would not encourage that for any of the HTYCers, you know, unless your situation is really dire, and that's the best thing for you to do for your mental health.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:07
Or if you've got enough runway and built enough savings, and you have created that pathway for yourself to be able to have additional options.

Lisa Lewis 19:15
Yeah, oh, yeah, well, we should talk about transition planning in a second. But what I wanted to say there is that if you are exhausted and burnt out with your current job, then I would so encourage you to start drawing some really strong boundaries with your work for two reasons. One, because you got to get a little bit more margin in life, to be able to make this career change exploration a priority. And to feel like you have this space to start dreaming and start creating this vision of what you could move into and get yourself just re energized enough to take that one next baby step to explore. But the other reason is, if you're feeling burnt out and in a terrible spot, you know, even if you don't end up making a career transition for two or three or four months from this very moment, wouldn't it be nice to get yourself a little extra breathing room and a little bit extra, you know, a mental health, mental piece. And just having that first conversation with your boss to say, this is not working for me right now, this is not sustainable. How can we find a way to make this sustainable? And then start to crack the door open to have some other conversations. Because, wouldn't it be cool if you were able to get a little bit more fulfillment and excitement out of your job just by being able to have an agreement that you can limit it to 40 hours a week? Or if you have a conversation with your boss to say, "hey, I really need these boundaries." And your boss says, "we can't really make that happen." Then it's going to be no surprise to anybody when you say, "I would like to make a transition to a different department, or I'm putting in my notice and going on to something else." But you've given your boss and your employer at least the benefit of the doubt and at least one opportunity to try to make things better for you. Because sometimes folks are silently suffering, and silently working 60 hour weeks that their bosses don't necessarily see or acknowledge. And if you can bring that to light with folks, you can sometimes make these quick marginal improvements that will give you so much more space and breathing room and freedom, you know, even if you do ultimately end up making your career change in a month or two anyways, I think if there's any opportunity to immediately make things better on you and a mental health sense, you should definitely do it.

21:51
I was sure that I needed to make changes in my career, but there was so many options that I was stuck.

Joshua Rivers 21:57
Cindy is a chief financial officer for a small nonprofit in Fresno, California, while completing the exercises, she made a discovery.

22:07
I knew by myself in advance was, I need to look for improvements. I need to make those improvements. And then also know, I don't do maintenance. What I didn't know, there was an underlying theme between the two. The reason you need to make the improvements is because I work hard not to get bored. It was apparent to me.

Joshua Rivers 22:27
However, it seems that the she was the last one to find out.

22:31
I took my shiny new discovery to my family. And we were happy to validate. Yeah, that's the reason that they thought I did these things. Without the exercises and the figured out eight day course, I would remain blind to a clarifying truth that everyone else thought that I already knew. And therefore they were talking about it. I'm now concentrating on work in consulting industry. There will be project base so I can complete things and move on to the next thing, alleviating a boredom.

Joshua Rivers 23:01
The HTYC eight day figure it out course helps Cindy realize something that was obvious to everyone but her. What could it do to help you discover so that you can make an impactful change for your life and career? To take the course for yourself, text HTYC to 38470 that's HTYC to 38470 or just simply go to figureitout.co that's figureitout.co.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:36
Okay, so we're talking about like, what makes career change difficult in the first place. And that is absolutely one of the things if you're exhausted, burnt out just like you're talking about Lisa, then you're not going to, you call that margin and I absolutely love that, you're not going to have the margin to be able to get happily even the space to get to know yourself enough and figure out what the next step can look like. So almost the precursor to doing any of the difficult work to understand what would be a great career change for you, or to have the time and space to actually make that change, you have to create your own margin. And most people are doing exactly what you described, where they're wandering around and kind of bumping into stuff just because they're so tired, so burnt out, so exhausted, and that's not obviously a good place to be. And when we're talking about really a major life change that for most people some, you know, take someplace between two and six or seven, nine months, in some cases, because that's what this is making, not just making a career change, but making a career change to work that you are enjoying and is for you. Then that is, it requires getting some space and getting some margin. Okay, so let me pause and say most people are kind of afraid to have that conversation. So let's talk about that for just a second here. First of all, what is that... what are the possibilities? And what that conversation can get them in terms of margin or different type of immediate quality of life? And then what are the things that people get scared about? And what are the realistic potential negatives? Let's break it down to those couple of sections.

Lisa Lewis 25:21
Sure. Well, and especially with your background in HR, I'd love to hear you fill in with your thoughts here too. But, so to start with, what are some of the potential positive outcomes of having that kind of conversation? I think positive outcome number one is that, you remember that you have some power, and you have some choice. And at the end of the day, whatever current work situation you are in, you probably have at least a little bit of opportunity to make a change or an improvement or an upgrade. And, you know, some of the ways that, that could play out is you might be able to get flexibility on the hours that you come into the office, you know, maybe you have core hours, and you only need to be in the office from 10am to 3pm. Maybe you get the opportunity to work from home, and that eases some of the burden on you because your commutes tough, or you've got to go pick up your kids from daycare, maybe you get the opportunity to fully work remotely, you know, you could get the chance to change responsibilities and take on something new and even be able to start testing out that career change in your current job by taking on a new cross departmental project. And, you know, once a company has you as an employee, 99% of the time, they don't want to lose you, they've made an investment in you, they think that you are smart and talented and worthwhile and you'd help them grow the business. But if you're seeing ways to grow the business, in ways that will also grow your happiness, then I think you owe it both to yourself and to the company to say, "Hey, here's what I'd like to do." And Scott, I think you have a beautiful story about how you were able to do this with your last boss and able to show how actually working from home, made you able to be more productive, made you a higher output higher caliber employee for them, but also got you some desperately needed margin and flexibility in your own life.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:27
Oh, yeah. This, I mean, people start from one of two places here. So you're either starting from you already have a good relationship, and they view you as a high performer and everything and that's what's going to allow you to go have that type of conversation in the first place. However, on the flip side, if you are struggling and, you know, you suspect they know who you're struggling to, then it's maybe even more important that you go and have that conversation and ask for help. So, on the struggling side, that conversation can be as simple as, look I have been really struggling with these pieces of the job, I want your help to figure out how I can do these much, much, much better, because I'm probably doing things that are making it harder. And I could really use your partnership on this. And that can be as simple as that conversation even though I know people are scared to have that because feel like they're admitting failure to some degree, but actually what you're doing is getting your boss's support to actually turn it into a really great situation so that then you can have an additional type of conversation later, which that piece that you're referring to Lisa. I went, I already had a great relationship with my boss and they felt really, really good about me as an employee. They wanted to keep me, I knew all of that already. And I had intentionally built that. But I went to them and said, "look, I am wanting to do something else. And I am really excited about that. But I also want to make sure that everything is really well taken care of here." And that's what eventually led me to start this business. But even before that, went to them and negotiated a little bit of flexibility and time and it started out with actually just one day a week being able to, actually one thing is one day every other week. Yeah, one day every other week, being able to work from home. And I just went in and presented a business case for it. And when I say a business case, I'm just talking about like, how is it going to be good for them? Like, forget me, push me out of the equation for a second and say, what are they going to get out of this deal? And why would they want to even consider it? And it was really simple things like, hey, this is going to make me so much more productive. Here's what I've already measured. On an average day, out of the 10 hours a day that I'm spending at the office or nine hours a day that I'm spending at the office, then four of that four to five of those hours are taken up by people just dropping by my office to have conversation. And as much fun as that is, and as much as I enjoy that, it's not helping me move these projects along that I know are critical. So that's, where my business case started. And then I just sat down and said, "hey, look, I would love to try this. How could we make this happen? How could we try this out? Could we try it for just, you know, 30 days, see how it goes. If it's not working out, let's discontinue it. If it is working out, then that's fantastic, because that means I'm more productive. Are you willing to do that?" So we tried it for one month, and that's how it started. And it was literally that simple of a conversation, although there was a lot of thought put into how it would be really, really good for my boss and my employer.

Lisa Lewis 31:01
Yeah. Oh, Scott, I love that. And I think one of the biggest takeaways from what you just mentioned is that the more thoughtfulness you put upfront into presenting the business case of how this is beneficial for them, the fewer potential negative ramifications you're exposing yourself to and having that conversation. Because I think you're absolutely right to bring up that, you know, on occasion, you can have this sort of conversation and it can backfire. And your boss can all of a sudden think, you know, is this person trying to take advantage of the system? Do they have one foot out the door? Yada, yada, yada? And I think that those types of reactions tend to come up when you go into that conversation, just underprepared and haven't thought about ways to really show off the business case or why it makes sense for them first, before any acknowledgement of the benefits for you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:59
This is really interesting because I really thought we were gonna go on a couple of different ways. And there's so, oh my goodness, there's so many things that cause career change to be difficult, especially when you're looking for work that and looking for a career that actually fits you and that you're excited about doing and everything else. But so much of the what stops people is way back in the just going through and doing the job and all the normal stuff that pops up, I know that before we hit the record button, you were talking about like internal scripts and beliefs and kind of what we tell ourselves and some of those pieces too. And I think that those are really, really critical, but they cause us not to even believe it's possible in the first place. And therefore if we don't believe it's possible, we never are willing to take and act on some of these steps like going and having a really simple conversation with your boss saying, "hey, look, how can we make this better?"

Lisa Lewis 33:04
Yeah. Oh, so true. But the cool thing there is if you are willing to step, put a pinky toe into the water of this type of a conversation with your boss, that is tough, and that requires some courage, then what else are you capable of doing? You know, and it certainly would be the most simple and risk managed way for you to test out a career changes if you can get your current employment, to make that a possibility for you. But if that's not a possibility, and you do your due diligence there, you also know you're capable of doing hard things. You're capable of preparing yourself for that sort of a conversation, which wouldn't be unlike a new business conversation that you would have if you went out as an entrepreneur, or sort of conversation that you're likely going to have with a future employer when you're saying, "I'd love to come work at your organization. Let me talk about all the value that I can bring to what you're trying to do here."

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:07
I couldn't agree more. I was thinking back to what you had said a little bit earlier, and even talking about transition planning and being able to evaluate what the steps look like to get out. But I'm not even sure that, that is valuable here except to say that, to do any of this stuff, I think that part of what you're going to have to do is figure out at least what the light of the end of the tunnel looks like, and I'm not necessarily talking about, look, I'm going to make the, I don't know, I'm going to become a beekeeper and it's going to be awesome, and I can't wait to become a beekeeper and that's what's driving me every single day to be able to make this change, have these hard conversations and everything else. That's not what I'm talking about. Instead, I'm talking about, how can you imagine what a better life could be and the stuff that's most important to you. And then that can help you work backwards, to be able to make some of these steps in the first place and have something to move towards. One of the things that, I can't remember where I've heard it Lisa, but I've seen truth to it again and again and again, like part of what drives progress in any particular area for somebody is, and even motivation people. People talk about motivation, but most people realize that motivation runs out. However, if you've got that light at the end of the tunnel that provides hope, and hope often doesn't have to run out. And that can also add in purpose. And I don't know we can get into one of 15 billion different studies and stuff saying that all those things are good things. But I think you've got to have some of that to be able to get through any of these hard things, because otherwise, why am I going to take the time to go and have that difficult conversation with my boss? Why am I going to push past some of these hard things in my head? Why am I going to take the time to get to know myself in the first place? So what are your thoughts on that, first of all?

Lisa Lewis 36:15
Yes, oh, my goodness, I totally agree. You've got to have hope and you've got to have that vision for what a future life might look like. And I love a quote from Tony Robbins about how, "you don't need motivation, you need inspiration when you're trying to think about doing hard things and big things in your life." Because motivation will come and go and especially if you are in a burnt out situation right now, you probably have no motivation to do anything beyond it, just get yourself out of bed in the morning and you may not even have the motivation to do that. But if you can come up with an inspiration, inspiring vision of what life could look like for you, you know, what that ideal career situation is? That can be the fuel for the fire to keep you moving yourself inch by inch, closer to new possibilities and new frontiers.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:15
One of the things that we have people do in career change boot camp and actually some of our other programs too, I think is really, really powerful is called visioning. And there's a lot of different forms that this can look like. And I don't know what that sounds like, if you haven't heard of this before, maybe it sounds a little "woowoo" or something along those lines. But all it really is, is just helping to paint yourself a picture of what the future can look like and how you want to spend your time. In our case, we're looking at it as "hey, how do you want to spend your time?" So that can literally be what your ideal day or week looks like. It can also be, you know, looking at five years in the future and not saying oh, I'm working this type of job and it's absolutely fantastic. And I'm eating this type of bagel on my way to work, or whatever else, but instead, the most important pieces of what your life looks like at that time. Because when you do that, and when you can start to vividly imagine that what is really, really, really weird is that you start and begin to make those types of connections for what has to happen in between there. Will you have it all figured out? No, not necessarily. But if you've got that, you know, light at the end of the tunnel, like we're talking about, because that's what this can be, or can help establish, then you can continuously make decisions on a daily basis, even micro decisions that you don't realize that you're making that can move you closer and closer to whatever that vision is that you're talking about. So that's one teeny tiny little trick, you know, that we use with people that we work with that can help, especially when it gets hard. Because we heard establish that difficult career changes are by definition, difficult, right? I mean, have you ever, I don't think I've ever asked you, but have you ever done anything like that, Lisa?

Lisa Lewis 39:18
Scott, I am such a believer in visioning, and figuring out what you really want. And this is actually a very cool time to ask me that question, because I started out my coaching business at the end of 2015. And when I was writing my 2016 goals, I wrote down, I'm going to be working for myself before the end of the year. And could I have told you the path to get from there to where I am now? No. Did I have any idea the twists and turns that it was going to take to figure out how to make that a realistic possibility for me? Oh my goodness, no. But were there secret micro decisions that I must have made along the way that helped me to keep this vision at the forefront of my mind and keep moving towards it even when I didn't realize? Absolutely. And you know, it's gonna happen maybe a couple weeks before the end of the year. But that became a reality for me. And it was because I got super clear on what I wanted, and then sort of subconsciously started setting myself up for that to become my reality.

Scott Anthony Barlow 40:41
That's how it happens though. So that's something that's really really, really difficult to explain to people because it isn't a straight line path, isn't necessarily step one, step two, step three. Now, I think there are, once you've got that vision established, then you can begin to put in, you know, step two, or you figure out what step seven looks like, or whatever else and you start to begin chunking those pieces out, both consciously and unconsciously. But really, what's going on here is kind of the brain's ability to focus on what it deems important versus unimportant. So this is called selection bias. This is the same thing that like, you know, you buy the red Honda or whatever, and all of a sudden the red Honda's are everywhere, right? But when you decide that look, I'm going to be working for myself or I'm going to be making this transition or I'm going to, I don't know, for me three years ago, it was, we're going to spend winters elsewhere. And you know, now we're gonna go spend six weeks and live in Paris and stuff like that for a little while. But you know, when you decide those things, then all of a sudden, you start seeing the how you could do that everywhere, much like the red Honda that pops all up all over the place. Because you've decided and now your brain is filtering in that information versus filtering that out. So it's just getting your natural stuff to work for you rather than against you, which is where it's usually working. So absolutely love that answer. Lisa, for so many different reasons, many more than we have time to talk about here. Okay, so what would be your parting advice to people who are in this place right now where maybe they don't have the margin. They're thinking about this process and realizing that it's, it feels insanely difficult. They are wondering, you know, how do I actually make this change? What does that look like? What is you know, step one? What should they do? Where should they begin?

Lisa Lewis 42:56
Well, I have a two part advice nugget here. Part one is, if this is a question that is resonating with you about trying to figure out what exactly it is that I want and that I think I could have in my next career move, if you have not already, signed up for our eight day mini course, you got to do that. It has so many helpful prompts and ideas and exercises and videos from Scott. And I remember back when I was just first learning about HYTC, I saw all of that and was totally blown away at its ability to help focus your brain on helpful, forward moving and forward looking questions. So if you have not already taken a look at that, you should definitely go do that. But nugget two of advice is, I think the last reason why sometimes these things can feel really big and scary, is some folks don't have 100% crystal clear picture of what their current financial runway looks like. Because I think that the big underlying fear as you're thinking about a career change is, what if I quit my job and don't have anything lined up and then I'm unemployed for six months or something crazy like that? And so what I would say is to help bolster your own faith that you can manage this. Take a look at what's going on with your current bank account and savings, and figure out what sort of financial runway you have in front of you. So what are your current typical monthly living expenses looking like? What savings do you already have in place that could help for you to get by, if heaven forbid, you had this conversation with your boss and it went completely nuclear. And once you have a sense of, oh, I actually have two months living expenses already saved up or even better. Oh, I already have eight month's worth of living expenses saved up that I could tap into if I needed to. It can help for those hard things to feel a little bit less hard, or to feel a little bit easier to tap into the courage and the assuredness that no matter what it's gonna work out for you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 45:13
Most of our episodes on Happen To Your Career often showcase stories of people that have identified and found and taken the steps to get to work that they are absolutely enamored with that matches their strengths and is really what they want in their lives. And if that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that is awesome. You can actually get on the phone with us and our team, and we can have a conversation to find the very best way that we can help. It's super informal, and we try to understand what your goals are, where you want to go, and what specifically you need our help with. And then we figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like and sometimes even customize that type of help and then we make happen. It really easy way to schedule a conversation with our team is, just go to scheduleaconversation.com that's scheduleaconversation.com and find a time that works best for you. We'll ask you a few questions as well. And then we'll get you on the phone to figure out how we can get you going to work that you really want to be doing that fits your strengths, that you love and you're enamored with. Hey, I can't wait to hear from you.