677: Career Change After Burnout: Trapped in a Job You’re Great At—but Don’t Want Anymore?

(00:00) Scott Anthony Barlow: What if the job that you worked so hard to earn is the very thing draining the life out of you? What if moving up has started to feel like losing yourself?

(00:09) Jessica Ward: When I was still in my old role, I had a conversation with my husband and realized, like, he doesn't have to give himself a pep talk that “Today's not gonna be too bad.” And it is so much different now.

(00:24) Scott Anthony Barlow: Jessica Ward was a high-level leader in healthcare– capable, respected, and quietly overwhelmed.

(00:30) Jessica Ward: Being at that level of leadership felt really lonely.

(00:33) Scott Anthony Barlow: She felt stuck not just in the job, but in what she believed a career had to look like.

(00:39) Jessica Ward: Because I was in a leadership role, if I stepped down, that's going backwards.

(00:45) Scott Anthony Barlow: Then she found something that cracked open hope again. Real stories from real people who had found another way.

(00:51) Jessica Ward: Hearing the stories on the podcast from other people let me know I wasn't the only one.

(00:57) Scott Anthony Barlow: Jessica dug deep, leveraging all our tools, starting to do career experiments, and she didn't blow up her life. Instead, she built a bridge. And on the other side…

(01:06) Jessica Ward: So much more energy now and time, and capacity.

(01:12) Scott Anthony Barlow: If you've ever felt trapped in a role that you're great at, but don't want anymore, Jessica's story will show you what's possible. This is Happen to Your Career, the podcast that brings you real people, real transformations, and the courage to do work that truly fits.

(01:27) And if you haven't already subscribed, click “Follow” right now so you don't miss any new episodes.

(01:31) In this episode, we'll cover how Jessica learned what she actually wanted and needed out of her new opportunity. And then we'll also discuss exactly how she drew new boundaries when her needs for boundaries had changed. And then even further, I want you to listen for how she went through and decided what would create more energy for her. Here's Jessica describing exactly where she started out.

(01:58) Jessica Ward: When I was still in my old role, I had a conversation with my husband and realized like, “Oh, he doesn't get up every day and have to give himself a pep talk that ‘Today's not gonna be too bad. It's just gonna be this one little part that's really gonna be awful, and then the rest of it is gonna be okay, and you're gonna make it through it.’”

(02:18) Like, that's how I was waking up every day, and it is so much different now. It felt so good this week to come back after being off for a few days for the holiday and not dread going back to work this week.

(02:34) Scott Anthony Barlow: But if we go way back for a moment, what was causing you to realize, “Hey, I need to do something different with my work, with my career”?

(02:44) Jessica Ward: One, I just didn't feel happy in what I was doing. There was a whole lot of the time that I felt—maybe it could be described as imposter syndrome—but just like I wasn't good enough. I wasn't doing well enough. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I was working so hard all the time, and it was relentless day in, day out. No breaks from that, and just not happy.

(03:18) And there were times that I would cry before I went into work in the morning and had so many conversations with my husband, especially, but some other family members too, that were pushing on me a little bit of, “Hey, you just don't seem happy. Why are you doing this? Life is too short.”

(03:41) And I felt such a responsibility to do a good job and to stay. And at the same time, I had no idea if I stopped doing what I was doing, what I would do next or instead. Moving was not an option because of my family, and we live in a rather rural area, so there aren't a lot of other opportunities.

(04:10) So I just felt really stuck. And then there was also this big piece in my mind that because I was in a leadership role, if I stepped down from that in any way, that's going backwards. You don't go backwards in your career; you can only move forward.

(04:27) Scott Anthony Barlow: So tell me a little bit about that particular role that you were in. I definitely hear you loud and clear saying, “Hey, I felt this sense of responsibility, working insanely hard to be successful in that role. But tell me a little bit about that role itself.

(04:43) Jessica Ward: Yeah. I had worked for the company for a number of years and started there when it was rather small and it grew over time and went from being privately owned to being part of a larger company and made that transition with the company and a whole lot of other employees and had lots of people along the way that asked like, “Oh, wasn't that terrible?”

(05:11) And I'm like, “No, actually, there were a whole lot of benefits to it, you know.” And I could enumerate what all of those were, both for our clients and for employees, and I grew up in my career as I was there. So started in a client-facing role and then got some leadership responsibility, and then got some additional leadership responsibility, and then ultimately became responsible for the operation, and it's in the healthcare sector. And we have clients 24/7, 365 days a year. So it doesn't stop.

(05:52) Scott Anthony Barlow: It is ongoing all the time.

(05:55) Jessica Ward: Yes.

(05:55) Scott Anthony Barlow: I think the one thing that I remember chatting with you way back when is you had really positive experiences with the organization that you were with and still are with. And also at the same time, there were so many aspects as you were continuing to take on more and more leadership responsibility and ultimately ended up in a high-level leadership role, but at some point, it stopped having the same level of benefit for you.

(06:25) Some place along the way. Do you remember what that point in time was?

(06:29) Jessica Ward: I don't think there was necessarily a pivotal point in time because it was so gradual. It was slowly increasing responsibility at the same time that the company was growing. So that's another increase. Even though your role or your title may not change, like you go from a certain number of clients to now we're gonna double in size, or we're gonna add another program line, et cetera, et cetera, and then mix in a pandemic.

(07:01) Because I led through that, as well as we all went through the whole COVID thing. And when you're in that type of healthcare industry, you still have clients. We weren't working remotely; we were still going in every day and dealing with all of the things that came with that. So it was a slow build.

(07:22) Scott Anthony Barlow: What do you feel like caused you to say, “You know what, I need to do something about this”?

(07:31) Jessica Ward: There were probably three or four lines drawn. The first ones maybe were perforated because they didn't stick.

(07:39) The first couple of times I tried some things differently, once I even went to my boss and submitted my resignation, and he said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's talk about this. What's getting you to this point?” And so we talked through those things. We made some changes that were supposed to help, and they did a little bit, but it just wasn't getting better.

(08:07) And I think the tipping point was that it was even on weekends, evenings and holidays because I felt such a level of responsibility. So ultimately, I'm the one in charge. The buck stops here. If something's going wrong and the folks who are on shift can't fix it or figure it out, then I have to, 'cause I have to keep the clients safe and I have to take care of the employees too.

(08:37) And there were just enough cumulative times of getting those phone calls and taking care of it in the moment, or reassuring the staff and saying, okay, I will be there in just a little bit.

(08:50) Give me a chance to wrap things up here at home. And I'll be there within an hour, and I'd hang up the phone and turn to my husband and, okay, I gotta go to work. And then the tears would fall. And I didn't wanna go, and I didn't wanna do it, but obviously I had to because I just told them I was coming.

(09:11) So suck up that emotion and wash your face and put your clothes on and there you go. And there were just too many of those. It was just one of those things that I happened to find the podcast and started listening to episodes, and it gave me some hope for the first time in a long time.

(09:33) Scott Anthony Barlow: Why was that hope so useful to you during that time?

(09:38) Jessica Ward: Because I think the other piece that I haven't mentioned is that being at that level of leadership felt really lonely. I couldn't talk to the other leaders in my organization because they all reported to me. So I can't tell them that I'm struggling or that I hate work or that I don't wanna help them or any of those kinds of things.

(10:01) There was a change in leadership somewhere in there, so I didn't feel comfortable going to the person above me, who no longer was local, to say like, “I'm drowning here.” So hearing the stories on the podcast from other people let me know I wasn't the only one. I finally had people that were experiencing some of the things that I was, and they found another way and didn't have to live like that anymore.

(10:33) So here was a group of people who could help me, and it didn't have to be that way.

(10:38) Scott Anthony Barlow: That's amazing for so many different reasons. And it also makes me curious about what began to happen afterwards once you started to realize, “Hey, maybe it doesn't actually have to be this way. Maybe there is a different world in which I can start to figure out what is a fit for myself.”

(10:58) What are the first things that you found to be successful for yourself as you were navigating through what could work look like?

(11:07) Jessica Ward: Again, I think hearing other stories on the podcast was really helpful because, again, I was feeling stuck in my little local bubble, and there were times that I was fantasizing about working in fast food. That's kind of where I was, and I'd have the conversations with my husband, and he is like, “You just can't do this anymore.”

(11:28) And I'm like, “Yes, but if I quit, we can't just go without my income.” And he's like, "We'll be okay.” I'm the one that wants to budget and play with all the numbers in the household. And he's just like, “Well, we'll figure it out.”

(11:46) So again, like listening to the podcast was that place where, all right, other people have worked with coaches, and it's helped them find other possibilities, and there have to be other possibilities out there that I'm not able to see in my current state.

(12:05) And so I need someone to show me the path, to give me some tips, some pointers, some something along the way.

(12:11) Scott Anthony Barlow: So I'm curious about that. Tell me a little bit about once you started doing that work to define what extraordinary looked like for you, what did you find was challenging, and what did you find started working for you?

(12:27) Jessica Ward: What was working was really digging into strengths and having someone constantly bring me back to those, really digging into my values and what do I want life to look like, what do I want my ideal day to look like? What are the things that are missing from my life right now? Those were all really helpful, and again, because it's an ongoing process and there was accountability, there was someone to engage with in those conversations on a regular basis. I think the places that were hard were taking it from just a conversation to action steps.

(13:13) And so that piece of having the accountability of a coach was so helpful because there were definitely those times where I had steps that I was supposed to take or a conversation I was supposed to reach out and have or whatever, and didn't do it till the day or two before my coaching session because procrastination and I'm just busy and I'm doing this job that's overwhelming. So I had a gazillion reasons not to.

(13:45) But knowing too that it was still important to show up to a coaching session even if I hadn't done it. That was incredible.

(13:56) Scott Anthony Barlow: That's so amazing. I think the other thing I'm really curious about, too, is when you were going through this process to define what work looks like for yourself or could look like for you, what did you find to be the most surprising?

(14:13) Jessica Ward: I think the piece that was most surprising and still is that what I'm doing now. So that outcome, if you will, is something that I'd always thought of as my “backup plan.” And that is starting my own business and seeing clients on my own.

(14:33) But again, I think it took having someone else walk through that process with me, and like you said, being accountable to them so that I was helping myself, because otherwise it was just too easy to not do that.

(14:50) Scott Anthony Barlow: I think the real lesson here that when I look at your story, is that you made the intentional decisions that, “Hey, I recognize that I need to set up my world in a way that produces this accountability so that I can move forward on the things that are truly important to me.”

(15:09) And that one intentional decision then enabled literally everything else to follow. So I think that is pretty cool. When you started to get into the work and the different realizations that you had along the way, do you remember at what point you started thinking, “You know what, maybe this thing that I have as a backup plan could actually be my main plan, and here's why”?

(15:33) Jessica Ward: Yeah. So in my previous role, I had a meeting to essentially market the company and its developing relationships with referral partners. And in the midst of that, she was talking about a need in the community that needed filled.

(15:57) And conversation just stuck in my head in the space of that meeting, I didn't say anything. But then I reached out to her again later and said, “Hey, you mentioned this. Are you really serious about this? Do you really think that someone could start their own business doing this and make a go of it?”

(16:17) And she's like, “Yeah, are you interested?”

(16:19) So it was this ongoing conversation, kind of one baby step at a time, with coaching sessions in between those, with some encouragement from Kacha. And it didn't end up being as hard as what I would've made it in my head.

(16:38) And we created this process where it can be a beautiful transition for however I want it to be. So I changed my role at my current/previous employer and went back into a client-facing role, and only part-time, so that I can take time to develop my own business. And told myself and everyone else, I'm giving myself six months in this kind of half-and-half role before I make any other decisions because it's gonna take a while to build my business.

(17:10) So I don't wanna make any rash decisions and jump anywhere too quickly. And that six months has passed, and I'm like, “Nope, we're still good sitting there.” I don't think the half-and-half role is the end-all be-all and what it's gonna be forever, but it's still the right place for right now.

(17:31) Scott Anthony Barlow: One of the things that I wanted to ask about before we move too far along, tell me about the conversation with your boss, and anybody else who was involved, where you had decided, “Look, I probably wanna step out of this essentially executive leadership type of role, senior leadership type of role that you had been in making these ongoing sets of decisions and step into something that was an individual contributor type of role.

(17:58) Tell me about what that conversation looked like. What did you do going into it to prep for it? How did it turn out?

(18:05) Jessica Ward: Yeah. Definitely had conversations ahead of time with Katja, my coach, about it 'cause it was something I was really anxious about. And I think there was probably some procrastination in there on my part, too.

(18:22) Yeah. “Didn't get to that yet. Nope. Didn't get to that yet.”

(18:26) So got to the point where, okay, I'm gonna have this conversation. So scheduled some time with my boss on her calendar. It was a virtual call. And did it towards the end of the day because I knew, like, okay, afterwards, then I can just go home.

(18:46) I can hide if I need to in my bed, whatever. And she was really surprised. I leaned on the fact that I wanted more time with my family because that was one of my values, and that role was just not meeting that need. And in the midst of this whole process, my parents were in an accident, and my father ended up passing. So it elongated my coaching process a little bit and definitely brought my values much more crystal clear than had that not happened, I'm sure.

(19:24) And I felt really blessed that my company had allowed me to have some time off to be with my mom and be with my family. And I realized I wanted to be there a whole lot more, and I couldn't do that in this executive leadership position where I'm responsible for clients and employees and being on site. So I really leaned into that part of the conversation with my boss. I said, “I love this company. Obviously, I've been here for a long time. I believe in the mission. I believe in what we're doing, but this role isn't working for me anymore.” And so it is time for me to transition, but I wanna do it in a way that is also good for the company, good for the clients, good for the referral sources, good for the employees.

(20:20) And so this doesn't have to be fast. This isn't me saying here's my two weeks' notice or my 30 days' notice. We can take some time and figure this out. And so that's just where we left the conversation at that point. And my boss took a couple of weeks to think about it, and then we had another conversation, and together we started to create this plan that we are gonna take six months to set up this transition.

(20:51) Then, in the process, my boss figured out who would take over my responsibilities and step into that position when I stepped down. And then she was someone who was already in the company, so I could start to have some conversations with her. And then we talked more specifically about what the timing would be, and as I'm saying this, I'm like, “No, we didn't initially plan for it to be six months. I think we planned for four.”

(21:08) And then it kept getting pushed back and pushed back. And Katja was like, “Jess, you need to pick a date. You need to pick a date. It's okay to set a boundary with this.” And I'm like, “Yeah, I'm okay with this.”

(21:32) Scott Anthony Barlow: At what point did you pick the date?

(21:33) Jessica Ward: We had the initial conversation, I think at the beginning of December, and I don't think we decided on a firm date until probably middle or end of March and decided it would be the middle or the end of April. And then, once we got to those final communications to let everyone know, it felt like it went super fast. And that was just also strange after so many months of this is gonna happen, oh, it happened.

(22:05) Scott Anthony Barlow: When you think back and, yeah, think over the entire process of negotiating a move, for lack of a better phrase, to something that does fit the life that you're trying to build, what advice would you give to somebody else who's in that place where they want to make a big move and are apprehensive in one way or another about doing so?

(22:29) Jessica Ward: The first thing that comes to my mind is setting up a support system. That’s one of the things that I think was really helpful. This was the first time, I said I'd had a couple of attempts before, but this was the only one where I had talked with more than just my husband. So my parents were aware. I had a couple of key friends that were aware.

(22:53) Again, being cautious about that in my circle and knowing it was people that I could trust that weren't going to talk about it with “the wrong people” before I was ready. But they were people who cared about me and wanted the best for me, and already had been encouraging me like, “I don't think this is working for you.” And so that was super helpful.

(23:22) And then having someone to provide that accountability and the support step by step through it, and understand this is a process. It's not a one-and-done; it's not a “we're gonna meet three times, and it's all gonna be figured out.” It can be a process, and in that process, there're gonna be twists and turns and things that come up that we don't expect. And that's just part of it.

(23:46) Scott Anthony Barlow: So when you think about where life is at right this moment, what is specifically creating a better fit for you now compared to back then? What are the parts that are more in alignment with what we would call your ideal career profile than what they were?

(24:05) Jessica Ward: I get to set my own schedule, which I love, and arguably, I probably could have done more of that in my previous role than what I did.

(24:18) But working “for myself” somehow gives me the mental permission to do that. And, if I, for my business, have a client that reaches out in an evening or a weekend or something, I get to decide if I respond or when I respond. And in that flexibility, it's just changed my whole mental outlook on time that I used to, like if I left work “early” because I'd worked part of the weekend or put in long days or whatever, I always felt like I was playing hooky or sneaking out when I wasn't supposed to be.

(24:59) And I don't feel that way anymore, and it feels so good. I did a little bit of work today for my business, and now I'm doing this, and then later I'll go do some more for my business. But in the meantime, I ran a couple of personal errands, and that's fine. I don't feel guilty about that. It's wonderful. I have so much more energy now, time and capacity.

(25:27) I'm able to have energy for relationships with family again and do things that I enjoy doing that I hadn't done for years. Or if I did them, I felt like it was an obligation, and all the fun was taken out of it. So those things are just so much better.

(25:45) I think the other thing that comes to mind is this whole concept of boundaries. In my work, there's always been a lot of conversation about that. But in my leadership role, I feel like it got twisted because I had a number of times that employees set their boundaries, and the client still had to be cared for. And so boundaries almost became a bad word to me.

(26:18) And then when someone said, “Jess, you need to set your boundaries.” Not that I didn't want to, but part of my work has been working through my own feelings and emotions around that word. And in my ongoing work, as I've worked with this other coach now, one of the things that's been really helpful to wrap my head around is that yes, as you have your own business, you need to set your boundaries, and they can change.

(26:50) If it's not working for you, then you change it, and that's okay. And I'm like, “Oh, that's really helpful.”

(26:58) Scott Anthony Barlow: That's fantastic. Anything else I've worked for you to be able to set boundaries, 'cause I totally agree that. There can be the negative implication when you've been the person who is responsible for an entire organization or set of people or whatever it is on a larger scale, where somebody does a great job of setting boundaries and saying no, but then it still has to get done. So then, how does that get done?

(27:26) Jessica Ward: I think, again, it's that piece that we talked about that it doesn’t—there's not finality; it's a process. So this is what's working for right now. And when it doesn't work, when it starts to feel not right, then let's take a look at it and figure out what needs to shift. And it's about experimentation.

(27:49) And so that concept of career experiments, I think, applies in so many other ways too and is just super helpful.

(28:01) Scott Anthony Barlow: Earlier on, you mentioned that your values were in conflict with the role that you, in many different ways. I'm curious about ‘cause as you were going through to define what creates an extraordinary next step for you, how did you really pin down what you valued most? What worked for you there?

(28:21) Jessica Ward: I think going through the exercise with Katja to identify my values and then also talking about and thinking about how are those showing up and how am I spending time, and is that in alignment? And some of it wasn't totally out of alignment because I do value my career and see that as a way of pouring into others. And I value learning. And so really enjoyed attending conferences and doing continuing education and leadership trainings and all of those kinds of things.

(28:59) But those kind of took over, and I wasn't having time for other values in the way I wanted to. And again, like I said, I think some life circumstances that kind of coincided really brought that into focus in a big way, too. I wanted to have time with my family, and if they needed me, I wanted to be able to change up my schedule or drop everything if I needed to and go. And now I can do that.

If you're ready to stop believing the stories that are actually keeping you stuck and start creating the career and the life that you want, drop me an email directly, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. We'll connect you with the right person on our team, and we'll figure out the very best way that we can support you.

Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search