607: How Tuning Into Your Desires Can Guide You to Career Fulfillment

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 00:01

You know when a chapter is over, you're like, "I have learned everything that I can learn from this experience, and I wanted to go home." And I just had this calling of like, "I think I've learned everything I need to learn."

Introduction 00:18

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:43

What should my next step be? It's the question we hear over and over from people wanting to make the shift to more fulfilling work. But here's the truth, it's actually the wrong question to ask. True fulfillment doesn't come from following a step by step guide. Surprise! There's no one size fits all checklist to get a perfectly fulfilling career. Because real fulfillment, well, turns out, it's different for everyone. This is probably not a massive surprise to you if you've listened to this podcast before. It's not an external process that you have to get through, it starts with you. So instead of starting with, "What should I do next?" Ask yourself, "What do I actually want?" That simple shift could change everything.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 01:29

This quote of, I'm sure you've seen it before, "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive. Because the world needs more people who've come alive." I really believe that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:42

That's Karen Woodin-Rodríguez. From a very young age, Karen knew she wanted to make an impact, so she set out with a simple goal of changing the world. Very simple, right? So she got her degree in political science from Columbia University, worked with social enterprises across the globe, and ended up in India where she founded her own business in international development. She was doing work she was great at and she was very successful. To everyone else, it seemed like she was thriving, but deep down, something was missing. This is a common theme. You've heard it on this podcast before, and she found herself wondering, "Is this really it? Is this all there is?" Here's the key thing that happened here, though. Instead of ignoring those feelings, Karen used them as an opportunity to look inward through that reflection. She realized that her true calling was still about changing the world, but on an individual level–working with people one on one. So she used all of her experiences and her connections to transition into full time career coaching. This is where we got to meet Karen because over the years, she's personally helped over 500 people make meaningful transitions to work that fulfills them. But today, we're lucky to have Karen's unique experiences, insights and expertise as a part of the Happen To Your Career team. So in just a minute, you're gonna hear Karen, and she'll be sharing how she stopped doing what she thought she had to do to change the world, and then figured out what that really actually meant for her. By the way, the voice you'll hear is Samantha. She's our content manager, and she's talking with Karen about where her career first began.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 03:22

I was raised in Monterrey, Mexico. It's in the north of Mexico. I did the International Baccalaureate, which is like this really like advanced critical thinking bachelor's degree. And the reason I'm talking about high school when I'm like a grown woman is because that is where I have the seeds of I wanted to change the world. I'm a millennial. I drank the Kool Aid. I wanted to change the world. And that's why I went to, like, the most intellectually demanding high school I could. And at the same time, I was doing theater and Model United Nations, which is a debate, a simulation, and I was doing leadership classes and that I felt so fulfilled as a human being, and that experience allowed me to get into Columbia University and get a full ride, need based, full ride to Columbia University. And that opened up the doors of the world for me. So I had that opportunity, and I thought, "Okay, I want to change the world. How do I do that? Let me... I'll study political science", because I want to work in politics, or I want to work at the United Nations, that is the way to go. So I did that, and all of my internships throughout college were around social enterprises. Why? Because if you want to work in politics in Mexico or at the UN that takes time. But what was immediately available was working at social enterprises, which are these businesses that are trying to solve some sort of problem, like, access to clean energy, access to clean water, alleviating poverty, etc. So I did that. I did internships in Guatemala, Ecuador, Singapore. I did a stint in Kenya, and junior year changed my life. So...

Samantha Martin 05:06

Junior year at Columbia?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 05:07

Yes. So what happened is, one of the coolest things about Columbia, a very well resourced University, is there's these internships abroad. And I was like, "I'm going to use all of them." So they had this one in Singapore for a social enterprise. And the way that I chose that, Samantha, was I asked myself, they had another one in Hong Kong, they had one in London. And before this, I had never left Mexico. I'd only left Mexico to go to McAllen, Texas, which is where my grandparents lived in South Padre Island, and like a little bit of Texas, but that's it. And suddenly I was traveling internationally with social entrepreneurship, and there was an internship in Singapore. And I chose it because I thought to myself, "Let me go to the place that I would otherwise never go to." Like, I thought I'm always going to want to go to London, but like Singapore, I don't even know where that is on the map. So I went there, and then, you know, I did my internship. And I remember there was one weekend where, like, I went with a group of like, other interns, and they're like, "Do you want to go to Thailand for the weekend?" And I was like, "What?" So we went to Thailand for the weekend. And I remember being like, in the ocean swimming, and just being like, "Can this be life? Because this real life, is this me coming from, like, never leaving Mexico?" So that really cracked something open for me where I was like, "I think I want to live internationally." And that's what I mean when I say that Columbia opened the doors of the world for me. So then I was like, okay. And at the time, everyone in college was either being an investment banker, doing teach for America, or, I don't know what, so I didn't know how to answer the question of what I want to do. So instead, I answer the question of, where do I want to be. And I want to be internationally, and I want an adventure. So fast forward, that led me to India, where I worked at a multinational, which happened to be a social enterprise incubator. I have a career in international development that happened in India for five years, moved back to Mexico, leveraged that to work in microfinance. So basically, for the past eight years, I worked in international development across India, Latin America. I became Portfolio Manager for a microfinance organization called kiva.org and it was amazing. I loved it, right? That was my way of changing the world.

Samantha Martin 07:22

What took you back to Mexico?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 07:24

Oh, that's a good question. I always wanted to go back. I always wanted to go back. When I got the admissions to Columbia, my middle school coordinator said, "You're never coming back." And I was like, "Oh, but I am." And I did. And I did. I loved being in New York. I loved it, but I was also like, "What else is out there?" Right? I really... I have a deep sense of adventure and seeing the world, so I went back to Mexico. And then so eight years, International Development. That job... Now I'm going to tell you how I became a career coach. So the goal was to alleviate poverty through microfinance, right? So my job as a portfolio manager was, I needed to onboard social enterprises. So basically, I did social entrepreneurship for a long time. Kiva hired me because of that expertise. So now working in microfinance. One of the partners that I onboarded was a social enterprise that was a technology boot camp. So basically, people go through this certification program to become software engineers. Basically, it's an upward mobility program, and it was targeting specifically deported and returned youth from the US to Mexico. So it was the social impact thing, changing the world, right? So I work with them. I onboarded them, became friends with the founder, and she said to me, "Hey, our graduates need help getting hired. I know you're really good at getting jobs, so can you help them?" And I did. And that's it. That's how I became a career coach, right? And I realized I loved it. I got a kick from taking people from like, "Oh my God, I don't know how to do this", to "Wow, I did it." So I discovered that I love it. And what I discovered is that I now change the world, but I do it one conversation at a time, as opposed to through policy or through social entrepreneurship or by working at the United Nations or by being an elected official.

Samantha Martin 09:14

So, I do want to go back and crack open your story a little bit. So you were living in India, and then is that, after you were in India, you went to Mexico City, back to Mexico City? Was that a job change, or what made you leave that job?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 09:32

Yeah, that is a good question. So I was in that role for three years. I was a brand manager, and the way that this company was building their brand was through social entrepreneurship. They created an accelerator for social enterprises in the country. I loved that. But then, honestly, what I realized is, and maybe a lot of people have this experience with their first job out of college, I had to be there from nine to five, and that just didn't make sense to me. Because sometimes I had a lot of work, but other times I didn't, and we would literally sit in our office and just, like, wait for it to be 5pm and we would leave. And I just thought, "This is silly. There has to be a better way." So started reading about entrepreneurship, and I actually started my own business leveraging Model United Nations, which I'd done in college. And I discovered that, like Indian students, wanted to learn this because they wanted this extracurricular activity to get admissions into a US college. So I found a niche, and I started a business called Project Model UN, ran it full time for three years, and during that time, I worked with nearly 2000 students across five cities in India. Also worked across one city in Mexico. So it was, I loved it. I was training people in public speaking, skills, negotiation, how to present your ideas, collaborate. I loved it. But then I decided that, you know, when a chapter is over, you're like, "I have learned everything that I can learn from this experience. And I wanted to go home." And I just had this calling of like, "I think I've learned everything I need to learn." Obviously, India is a vast country. You're never going to learn everything. But for me, it was time to make a change.

Samantha Martin 11:11

So you were working with Indian youth. And then when you got back to Mexico, you were working with youth as well. Is that right?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 11:19

Yes, but different youth. So like in India was high school students and middle school students. Then it was more like young professionals.

Samantha Martin 11:26

So when did you transition to helping people with their careers? Not youth?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 11:32

Yeah. So basically, when I was in Mexico, I had five years of experience building my own business and working at social enterprises in India, and I was in the new market, didn't know how to find jobs there, so I thought it was a big crisis moment for me. I mean, in full transparency, like I experienced depression coming back. I had been out of the country for nine years. I had my identity was being the international student from Mexico, or, like, the foreigner from Mexico. And now I was like, the Mexican in Mexico, like, social, you know, I was like, "What?" It was a big crisis. But then I really, I had support networks for my friends, family, and I just did deep introspection and said, like, "What do I actually want? What are the common threats between these two experiences?" And for me, it really was social impact. However you define that. There's many ways to define that, right? But for me, I was like, "I need to be doing something that makes some form of positive impact in the world. So I was like, "Okay, social impact. And then what?" That was, like, still very broad. So I was like, okay, my experience, I've done business development, I've done partnership management. I can do fundraising, because I did it for my business. So I was like, okay, that led me to, like, partnership management roles, or project management roles because of what I've done. And that is how I found Kiva. So kiva.org has a mission of alleviating poverty through micro loans. They were looking for a portfolio manager. So I actually didn't meet all the requirements. I knew nothing about microfinance, but they needed somebody who had expertise in social entrepreneurship, which I had. So I leveraged that to get into that new role, and that role is what then led me to working with career changers and to coach them. But it was almost an accident. I was like, "How am I here?" Which is, like, how a lot of our careers are, right?

Samantha Martin 13:25

Yeah, so what's the connection between helping in microfinance to career changers?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 13:30

So at kiva.org working in microfinance, one of the partners that I onboarded in my role as a portfolio manager was called Ola code, and they were a technology boot camp that works with students. So I onboarded them to Kiva, became friends with the founder, and then she said, "Hey, we need help getting our students hired. I know you're really good at this stuff. Can you help us?" So I started doing it pro bono, just being like, "Yeah, I'll run some workshops. Yeah, I'll help out." Then I got laid off from my job at Kiva, and she's like, "Come work with us." So I did that, and I like, created... Basically, what I realized is, "Listen, I can coach people all day, all night. It is going to be far more effective if we get hiring partners who buy into our mission, and we're going to hire based on potential, not on execution." So I was like, and I'm already great at that, because I used to run my own business and I did partnerships management for my first job at Mahindra. So I started sending cold outreach emails, and I got 100 hiring partners, and got students hired. And then I was like, "I love this. I love working one on one with people." So then I took that experience to get my next role as a career coach at Springboard, which is another technology boot camp.

Samantha Martin 14:41

Interesting. I want to get dig more into your time when you were feeling just like a Mexican in Mexico.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 14:49

Yes, like, what is special about me?

Samantha Martin 14:51

Yes. Do you think that that was having, like, a huge impact on you that you weren't feeling special because your goal had always been, like, "I'm gonna change the world" and you felt like you weren't in that moment? Or where was your misfit coming from? I guess.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 15:06

Yeah. Well, you know, I was an entrepreneur, and I felt very proud of that. I felt very proud of the fact that I had seen an opportunity in the market, and I was serving students, like, middle and high school students, and I was very good at that. And then I realized this no longer serves me. I'm ready for the next chapter of my life. And I didn't know what it was. And I said, "That's okay. I want to explore and see what that next chapter looks like. So I'm just going to leave this business, close it down, I had some savings, and move back to Mexico." Honestly, I really wanted to go to New York, but I was like, can't afford New York. I have family in Mexico City, so I was like, "Great. Let me do that while I figure it out." And then slowly, well, actually, before that, my dream had always been to be an actor. So I was like, "What would I do if I had a rich family?" And I said, "I would spend time in New York pursuing acting." I was like, well, I can't spend a lot of time, but I can do a summer intensive. So I did that. And it was so fun.

Samantha Martin 16:06

In New York?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 16:07

In New York at Stella Adler studio of acting. I'm actually a part time actor now. But I came back and I slowly started feeling not good. Just like the constant thought that wouldn't leave my head was, my life is never going to be as amazing as it was before. And it was this anxious thought that actually led to depression. Because I was like, "I had made it. I had this business, I had replaced my income, I had doubled it. Was working the hours that I wanted. And now, who am I?" And I, on purpose, didn't line up a job for myself or clients in Mexico. The truth is, I was over doing Model United Nations like I had outgrown it. So I was like, "I don't want to run this business." I still have a friend who runs a Model UN business, and he loves it. And I was like, "I don't have that passion for this." So I know it's time to move on. It was very hard. I just, you know, I went from being an entrepreneur, like, doing whatever I wanted, feeling really excited in this amazing life in Bombay, traveling, to being in Mexico City, staying with my aunt who's, I love her, but like being at her house, not having anything to do and feeling terrible, right? So I'm like, "What?" I think it's kind of like, when people say, "I moved back to my parents house", it wasn't quite that because it was a different city, but it was kind of like, and I didn't believe in my potential. I was just like, "What? Like, why did I make that stupid choice?" Right?

Samantha Martin 17:38

But you closed that chapter because you knew something wasn't right and something needed to change, and you took the leap to make yourself make it.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 17:44

Yes, I did. I was like, "This country is no longer serving me." And I remember going from like, again, I would cry. You know, people who've experienced depression know this. Getting out of bed is a huge endeavor, just like you don't enjoy... I didn't enjoy watching movies. I was just, like, dull. It was just terrible. And eventually, what happened was, again, I have a very supportive family, like, I stayed with my aunt, I didn't pay anything, then I stayed with my friends, like, I had a big support network. That's very important to mention. No financial stress. And then here's the thing, in 2012, I actually took a course. Just like, to start my business, and then I took another one on how to find a job that you love, and I took it at a time and I had a job. I was like, "I don't need this." But this guy said something that really hit me, and he said, "Top performers always have another job lined up. As a top performer, like knowing where to get your next opportunity is a skill." And I was like, okay. So I did it. I did the course. Didn't use it until four years later when I was depressed and I remember, like, "I'm so grateful that I did that. That I did that for future me, because I knew exactly how to find a role that I loved. I knew exactly the system to follow." Right? So basically, I was like, sad and depressed, and then November was terrible. And then this was just my experience, I'm not saying it's for everyone, but there came a point where I did see a light at the end of the tunnel where I did feel like, "Okay, I can do something about this." Like, there was four months where, like, nothing, and then I was like, "I think I could do a little bit." And that's when I applied to the role at Kiva. I did my entire, like, outreach system.

Samantha Martin 19:32

And it sounds like you did have another role lined up, just like that guy told you to. Because when you got laid off, that lady was like, "Come work for me." Right?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 19:30

There you go. And it worked out. Then exactly, then it worked out later, right? So it did. It actually has played out. That's actually how I got this job at Happen To Your Career. I wrote it in my journal, "July 31st, 2024, get a job at Happen To Your Career." And I made it. I have, like, my action items, and I reached out to. I did the thing. I did the process.

Samantha Martin 19:59

That's cool. So is that, I'd want to call it manifesting, but if there's a better word for what you use, or was that that guy used before?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 20:07

Yeah, the way that I think about it is, I mean, I guess you could call it manifesting. But I think it's really, and this is like, what I do with my clients, you know, it's like, "What do you want? Let's connect with that desire, and then we're going to bring a deep inner belief that it can be done." And I knew that it could be done because I done it four times before. Myself, and then with my clients hundreds of times before. So then once we know like the target, we believe that it can happen. I just executed the system to get to that. I know that that doesn't sound as exciting or exhilarating, but it really is a process.

Samantha Martin 20:43

Yeah, it's a process. It doesn't have to be exciting if it works. It's exciting because it works.

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 20:48

It's exciting because it works. Exactly. Like, the process doesn't need, I mean, and it was exciting, but, like, I just executed the process that is proven, and here I am, and that's what I love to do. I love working with other humans to get to where they want to be.

Samantha Martin 21:03

So a big thing for you is starting with you said, breaking down like their goal, but as a desire, like, what they really want?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 21:11

Yeah, 100%. Like, the most important thing is, what do you want? Because people, like, 10 tips to be successful. What is success to you? What do you want? Right? And for some people, like, really, really care about working remotely, I'm one of those, I really care about direct, tangible impact, and I get that through one on one coaching. But just like, what do you want? And you'll see it in my profile this quote of, I'm sure you've seen it before, "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive. Because the world needs more people who've come alive." I really believe that. I believe that our desires are... they exist for a reason. You could say that they're divine, that they're God given, that whatever like is in your belief system. But, you know what? I learned this actually by going through therapy and, like, working with multiple coaches. You know this thing about, like, being an actor, for example. I remember going to therapy and being like, "Well, of course, like, everyone wants to be an actor. Like, what is this dream?" My therapist was like, "No. Actually, no. Not like, I don't want to be an actor." I was like, "What?" So I think this, I had this tendency of whatever I desired to be like, but everybody wants that, like, duh. I want to be well paid like everybody wants, well and no but you want it, and you want it in a specific way. So that thing, that's one of my biggest lessons, like, "What do you want?" And Elizabeth Gilbert talks about it too.

Samantha Martin 22:37

Eat, Pray, Love?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 22:38

Eat, Pray, Love, but she has another book. I don't have it here because I lent it to my friend, and she hasn't given it back yet. But this idea that our desires sometimes come screaming.

Samantha Martin 22:49

Big magic, right?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 22:49

Big magic. Sometimes it's like somebody on a megaphone being like, "You want this!" And sometimes it's like a little whisper that you follow. But I always know what I want. Like, I remember when I got laid off I did like, all of the journaling, all of the post its, all of the things about what I want to do and like, who do I admire and what do I like about them? What is the threat in my career? I did all those things. And then when I sat down in silence, in the truth of my heart, you've always wanted to act. You did in high school. You love it. You feel the most alive there. So I did. I did a three year, four year acting conservatory training program, and now I act part time. I'm rehearsing a play right now. But anyways, number one is desire, right? What do you want? And then let's turn that into like, how might we make this happen? Given like that we live on planet Earth, and there are these career options for you, right? So we pair it with your ideal career profile. And then one of the things that I love to do is take imperfect action, right? I love the reflection that is really important. That is... I journal every day. I journal three pages every day. For New Year's resolution, I journal 70 pages. I love introspection and being in dialogue with myself. That is the first step. And then after you've done that, you have to, have to, have to take imperfect action. And what I mean by imperfect action, follow up with somebody. You want to set up a conversation, send the email, even if it's not perfect, even if it's a little wonky, right? Maybe we're doing a strategy where you're going to be posting on LinkedIn. Sure, I'll give you a template, but then just post it. It's fine. The world isn't going to end if it's kind of like a bad post, right? So you will learn so much more from doing the thing than from thinking about doing the thing. Yeah, so that's like, I will be on calls with clients. I'll give you one specific example, a student I'm working with. "How do I reach out to this person? I don't know." I'm like, "Great, let's write it down together." I gave her the script. She seemed a bit paralyzed. I was like, "Let's just do it now." We crafted it. We tailored it. All good. "Bye, Sandy. See you later." She comes back to me weeks later. She's like, "Karen, I haven't sent it. I'm just like, I don't know why I'm sitting on it." And you know what, I'm a great listener. I'm all about like, what is a talk track? Let's think through that. But then I was like, "Actually, just pull it up. Is it ready? Send it right now." You know, I'm like, "Just send it right now." She's like, "Oh my God." I was like, "Actually, share your screen and do it right now." She sends it out, and she, like, almost has a heart attack. And I'm like, "Oh, my, great. You did it. We can move on from this." And what was great about it, I saw her, like, three weeks later, and she's like, "Karen, guess what? I sat on that for weeks. Within two hours from sending it, the head of design responded to me, and we had a call."

Samantha Martin 25:42

Isn't that how it goes?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 25:43

And I was just like, "So, I love that. Listen, we can talk about strategy, we can talk about all the things, but ultimately, imperfect action." And I love to do that with my students. I'm like, "You haven't done it. Okay, let's do it right now." That's it. Sometimes, like we're busy professionals, like, sometimes I just need co-working sessions. You know what I mean?

Samantha Martin 26:01

Yeah. So you mentioned earlier, I had taken it back to when you were in high school and you were fulfilled. Is I think you said in all different areas, and then you said, and that's where you are now. Can you expand on how you feel fulfilled right now in all these different areas? Because if I'm understanding correctly, like in India, you were completely fulfilled in the career realm. And then you went through everything when you came back to Mexico. But now you're feeling like thoroughly fulfilled in all areas, acting, relationships, career, whatever it is, can you expand more on that?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 26:43

Yeah, I think what really attracted me to Happen To Your Career is, "What is the life that you want to live? And how can we find work that supports that?" And when I say that I'm fulfilled, that's kind of what I mean. I love working, oh my God. And I love working with people one on one. I love helping people achieve their dreams. I'm so passionate about that. And I love acting, and telling stories, and rehearsing plays, and auditioning for things. And I love traveling, which is why with my partner, we take at least one international trip a year. And I love having deep, meaningful relationships with my family members and my friends, which is why I'm moving to live closer to my aunts. So that's what I mean. Like, there's different parts of me that I'm tending to with these life choices that I've made. Does that make sense?

Samantha Martin 27:32

Yeah. So when you wrote like, work at Happen To Your Career in July, what was the whisper or the megaphone that you were hearing when you were like, "I want to work there." What was moving you towards that?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 27:45

Yeah. I think it was like multiple whispers coming from multiple directions. I think a big part of it was, so I think two. Number one, I was looking for growth. And growth for me looked like a new challenge and learning new things. You know, for the past almost five years, I've specialized in working with. I specialize in working with creative professionals who are transitioning careers into technology, specifically into product design or user experience design, which is designing the digital products that we use in our lives, Google Calendar, Zoom, etc. And I love that. I love love, love that. And also I started to get the itch of, "I want to learn something else." And I...

Samantha Martin 28:25

Is that the thing you were feeling in India?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 28:27

Yeah. Like, what also I want to do with this? And for me, I realized I love career coaching. I know that is the thing that I love to do. How can I grow and expand my impact? And for me, at Happen To Your Career, I was like, "Oh, how exciting would it be to work with people from, like, very different backgrounds", which I kind of did before, "but also who don't actually know where they want to go to." So I was like, "How can I help answer a more beautiful question?" And the more beautiful question is like, what actually I want to do with my life? And what is the role? And what does that look like? So that was exciting to me. And then number two, my favorite part about my previous role, in addition to working with students, was the coaches that I worked with. I learned so much from colleagues. And then speaking to two of the career coaches at Happen To Your Career, and then also listening to the content, listening to the audiobook, I just kind of had a feeling of like, "These are my people." I like what they believe. I like what they think, they're top notch. I think it'll be very good for me to be surrounded by people who are world class what they do. So that's what led me here.

Samantha Martin 29:30

Nice. I wanted to ask, you said you were working with people focusing on creatives, moving into user design, user research. Is that right? So what are like some examples of careers that the creatives had before they moved into?

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 29:48

Yeah. So whenever I work in my previous role with clients, I use the term creative professional. But like, what even is that? I would say two things. Number one, literally, every single one of them says to me, "I want to be more creative in my career." And that tends to be like a defining thing of people who go into user experience design, not as much as for example, I was talking to one of my colleagues who coaches data analysts and data scientists. You know what they say. that they like to solve problems, and they love solving puzzles as kids. So I'm like, "Oh, these are different profiles", so that's their desire, and the careers they come from vary widely, everything from, obviously, graphic designers, architects, interior designers, psychologists, educators, people in marketing, sales, yeah, like, in quotations, the soft side of tech, right? The people who consider themselves empaths, who love creativity, who love building things, those are the people who I've primarily been working with over the past five years.

Samantha Martin 30:57

Okay, we talked about how you like to start breaking down your client's goals into their actual desires. So once you solve that with them, I guess that's the word, once you figure out what their true desire is to move forward, not what's your process, but what's your favorite parts of the process, or what do you like to focus on? Or...

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 31:20

I'll tell you an example. Yeah. So we have an idea, right, which is your ideal career? Well, it's not even that, it's before that. It's like, what do you want? And then we're like, what does that look like in the real world? Like, does this exist? How might it exist? How might we breathe it into existence? And then we'll form hypotheses around that. So for example, "Oh, maybe I can work remotely for a company like YouTube. Maybe I can be a content designer. Maybe..." so we look at specific roles, like, what roles exist at what companies that might fit into... we're just going to make us an assumption. And then what I love is having people talk to the humans in the positions that they think they want. So I'll give you an example. My partner, she works in sales at Amazon, and I've been coaching user experience designers. So she would listen to my conversations to get really curious. And then I looked at her and said, "Actually, you would be great at user research. Oh, my God, you would love it." And she got very curious about it. She started reading books. I know people who work in UX research. I was like, "I want you to talk to Caleb and Edith, to all my friends. Just ask them about what they do, their day to day. See if it's exciting to you." She did. And she left those conversations being like, "Oh my god, I love it. Who else? What else do I do?" Right? And then that led to like, okay, this does align. This is what I want to do. Then what? So then she asked people in the industry, "how do I learn?" And they were all like, "Oh, a Nielsen Norman Group is really the standard." So then she took a course, and then she's very lucky that she works at a company that at Amazon, they have something called subject matter expertise, which, every year you need to do a project that is outside of your area of expertise, outside of your team, and like, become an expert at it. Her team actually was developed that way, so she's doing that, and now she's on path for promotion to then get the role of user experience researcher. So I love that story, and that's I'm like, let's test it.

Samantha Martin 33:20

So what she did is, we like to call test driving conversations. So like having conversations with the people that you knew in the industry that she was interested in, the role that she was interested in. But I also wanted to say, it kind of goes to show that sometimes the people around us that are closest to us know us, not a little more than we know ourselves, maybe a little better than we know ourselves, but like, can help us figure out what fits us. And we can go to them and say, like, "What am I good at?" You know, all those types of questions. And we, I know our clients use that a lot, because they don't realize some of the things that their closest people in their life realize about them that can be so helpful when they're trying to figure out what their next step is, so that's an interesting example of that, because you were like, "Hey, you..."

Karen Woodin-Rodríguez 34:04

"You. You would be good at this." Yeah, that is so true. Like our friends. Another question to ask yourself is, what do your friends come to you for? What is it that they're like... All my friends like careers, interviews, help me with my resume, my LinkedIn profile, because I know I'm very good at that. What do your friends come to you for? And maybe there's good information there, maybe not. But in this case, there was. I was like, you'd be great at this, and now she's changed your career. So that's great. So one last thing I'll say is, if you're listening to this and you've been having this whisper that you want to change, that something's not working, that this isn't the career that you want, that there's something bigger or better, or just a better fit or more aligned for you, I just want to say that you're not crazy. It exists. It's there. How you go about it is different thing. But I just want you to know that you're not crazy and that what you're feeling is real and it's true and it's valid. And what I want for you is that you honor that, and you go after that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:16

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:09

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:14

I've started five businesses. Two of them are dismal failures, and three of them profitable and successful. Consequently, every single day I get questions about starting businesses from clients, from people at the coffee shop. Questions like, ""How long does it take? When should I take the leap to full time? What's a good amount to have in savings?" And I answer these, but honestly, most of the questions that I get asked are the wrong questions. In this episode, I give you better questions to ask when you're interested in starting a business on the side and potentially taking it full time. And more importantly, what most people never think to ask.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:53

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it, and if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player, so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, until next week. Adios, I'm out.