688: Most People Never Ask This One Question About Their Career

(00:00) Keith Penningroth: Drive to work, it was like… all these, I would just call them depressive thoughts flying through my head of like, “Why are you doing this to yourself?”

(00:07) Scott Anthony Barlow: By that point, Keith had already been in the role for about a year. On paper, he had done everything right– college, career path, software engineering job at Tesla. But every single morning told a different story.

(00:20) Keith Penningroth: Would just be that dread that set in very quickly, this is miserable. You're miserable.

(00:27) Scott Anthony Barlow: The pay was strong. The opportunity was real, but the cost kept showing up in other ways.

(00:32) Keith Penningroth: I was just exhausted. I was stressed. I was depressed, not taking care of my physical health.

(00:39) Scott Anthony Barlow: So, eventually the question becomes unavoidable. What happens when the career everyone tells you is a dream job is the thing draining your life?

(00:48) This is Happen to Your Career, the podcast that brings you real people, real transformations, and the courage to do work that truly fits.

(00:56) If you haven't already subscribed, click follow right now so you don't miss any new episodes. Because sometimes the biggest problem isn't failure. It's succeeding at something that was never meant for you.

(01:08) In this conversation with Keith, you'll hear the moment he realized success alone wasn't enough and why discovering his signature strengths changed how he thought about his career, and even how understanding what actually energizes you can completely redirect your path.

(01:24) Keith Penningroth: Realizing my signature strengths and that I don't get to use them was a big, “Oh. No wonder I feel that way.”

(01:32) Scott Anthony Barlow: Also in this episode, we explore how that realization led Keith to rethink what meaningful work really looks like. I also want you to listen for how Keith took steps to build a career and a life that actually fits. Here's my conversation with Keith.

(01:47) Keith Penningroth: My first job outta college, I got it, went from University of Iowa, moved down to Austin, got a job as a—my current role actually, now it's similar. It was a Solutions Engineer Role at Oracle. I really liked the idea of what the role was, and unfortunately, four months in—typical thing in tech—they got rid of the whole cohort that they just hired.

(02:10) And so I'd moved my whole life down to Austin, and all of a sudden, I didn't have a job. And so I was jobless for seven months. That was a really hard seven months because I spent all this time in college, and that was kind of like the most solid thing I had of like, “Oh, you go get a career, and that's your path. You start on that.” And then I had that taken away from me, and I didn't have friends in Austin, barely.

(02:34) And so I really was humbled by that and became grateful for a lot of little things in life, I think, just going through that time period and really had a lot of different hustles to pay my rent for that time. And eventually, I was able to get a role just through perseverance and waiting, and I really wanted to stay in Austin. But the market here is more competitive, tough.

(02:57) I fortunately got a role at Tesla, had an introduction thanks to a friend, and got that role and worked there for two years. Went through a lot of change, was coming in as a software engineering technician. So I was pivoting a bit. I had some coding skills, and I was like, yeah, I think I want to be more technical. That's what I'm gonna lead into.

(03:18) So I was there for a year, got promoted into a software engineer after a bit. The whole time, I was just exhausted. Like, I was stressed. I was depressed. Not taking care of my physical health, not getting enough sleep, you name it.

(03:33) But the pay was pretty good, and I was learning so much—how to be a software developer. I was learning all these new skills, and parts of me were excited, but most of me was burned out and just exhausted, so I thought this is not sustainable. My mental health is just not worth this. And I promised myself, I need to take ownership of that. I need to care for myself first.

(03:53) And I thought, “But I don't know what to do.” Like, what if I've gotten myself in the same type of issue, same type of problems, right, if I move to another role? I'm typical like this. I go find podcast books, et cetera. I gotta learn. I gonna learn. And so I found your podcast, and then I thought, “Hmm, they offer these things, and they talk about the results, and the people talk about the results, the testimonials. Yeah, let's give that a try.” So I did, and yeah, that's really what led to me wanting to make that change.

(04:22) Scott Anthony Barlow: So when you first landed at Tesla, what did success look like for you at that point in time, at least on paper?

(04:31) Keith Penningroth: I remember when I first got there, I thought I'm gonna get in, and I'm gonna get out. Because a lot of people know the work culture there is not the best. It's pretty demanding as far as the amount of hours and the urgency of things. I always said everything there is urgent, but then I always said, if everything's urgent, nothing is urgent. But yeah, I thought I'm gonna get in, and I'm gonna get out probably two years. And that's what it ended up being by the grace of perseverance. Yeah.

(05:01) Scott Anthony Barlow: As you got in there, I'm curious, what were some of the earliest signs that validated that it was not gonna be a long-term fit, that something was off for you?

(05:10) Keith Penningroth: I think number one was about 30 days in, I had a pretty tough boss and coworker. They're pretty tough to work with, I would say.

(05:19) Scott Anthony Barlow: Tough how?

(05:19) Keith Penningroth: Whew. Gosh. Demanding. Demanding. I remember one night, I'd gotten in at 8:00 AM. I think it was about 1:00 AM or 2:00 AM the next day. I'm still working. We had a project that we were trying to deliver on by the end of the week. I think it was Friday at 2:00 AM at this point. We'd been working all day, all night, and we needed some additional things that really only I had the knowledge of how to get them done, ‘cause I'd worked with these specific systems in the manufacturing plant.

(05:45) And so I said to my boss at 2:00 AM when I was still in the factory, and he was home, “This is gonna take me about five more hours. Like, I'm not gonna be able to get this done.”

(05:56) And I said, “Are you asking me to stay up all night?” And he said. “Yeah.” And I was like, “Holy shit.” So I think those types of moments where I was really, really pushed in a way that was not respectful of me, my own self-care, there were a lot of moments of that where I was like, “Yeah, this isn't gonna be a fit. And then second would just be that dread that set in very quickly.

(06:21) When I would drive to work, it was like all these, I would just call them depressive thoughts flying through my head of like, “Why are you doing this to yourself? This is miserable. You're miserable.” And it was like I would have to get myself up every day, and then I'd get into the office and get into that mode of like urgency. And so I think the combination of those things, working with these people, and just that dread or like, “Yeah, Keith, this is not sustainable. You will crack if you stay with this course.”

(06:52) Scott Anthony Barlow: Thinking back on that experience, what were some of the absolute best parts that you got, even though the overall experience was not a fit?

(07:20) Keith Penningroth: Yeah, the best parts was just the sheer amount of information I was able to learn in two years. Impossible, because the pressure forced me to have to learn. It was literally sink or swim. If you don't learn this stuff, you can't do your job. You're gonna get, I don't know, fired on a performance improvement plan, whatever. I think that pressure was something that, looking back, was a really good thing. Sucked, but I learned so much, and it made me the person I am in my job today and really opened my world to so many possibilities for my own businesses—or not businesses—but just own entrepreneurial interests, own passions to be able to build things, really, like build tools, applications.

(07:49) And in my own role now, being able to do that, I wouldn't have got that without it. Tesla is a place where a lot of times, your management, well, any big company, they’re not always gonna fight for you.

(08:00) So it really taught me how to fight for myself and if I felt I was being slighted or not being paid fairly, or not have this status to match what responsibilities I had, the role, right, how to argue for yourself in a productive way, in a respectful way, but just how to stand up for yourself and say, “Hey, I, I feel so slighted. I am actually really mad. And here are the reasons why I think what you're doing is wrong and why this is wrong.”

(08:28) So, really, how to stand up for yourself and not only for my role and pay, but also my opinions because Tesla is a place that… You know, there are internal politics like any company, but it does reward taking initiative.

(08:45) And so if you're willing to go tackle something and you have the resources or time to go do it, well, there's never time. But if you're willing to go do it.

(08:52) Scott Anthony Barlow: How do you think about mental health differently now versus when you first got to Tesla?

(08:59) Keith Penningroth: Yeah, I think about it way differently. Don't sacrifice your mental health for your job. There are ways to grow and not completely sacrifice your mental health. I actually feel like, towards the end of Tesla, I started to figure that out a little bit. I knew I still wanted to leave. Know your line in the sand, knowing, like, hey, if it gets this dark, if I'm having these types of thoughts, let's say suicidal ideation, you should probably leave. You should probably find something different or find a way to make a change that's more sustainable.

(09:27) And so I just view it as know where your lines in the sand are for your job. Know your lines in the sand of like these types of thoughts that are being brought up by my job, if that’s what's happening, I need to make a change. And so just know kinda where your boundaries are with that and what things you're not willing to let your job creep into with your mental health.

(09:51) And that's kind of vague, I know, but that's really how I feel. I just don't tolerate, I wouldn't tolerate as much. I would rather lose my job and make downgrades in my life. Eat out less. Maybe live in a different place, and go get a job that pays less, but it brings me peace, or doesn't cause me angst and depression. I would rather do that any day of the week, so it changed my values on how I view work and what I value when it comes to my work.

(10:25) Scott Anthony Barlow: I also wanna shift into this idea of what we would call signature strengths. You said something along the lines of what was most valuable for me is learning what are the things I can't not do? Tell me about that.

(10:40) Keith Penningroth: I loved thinking about that, and I never thought about it that way. What are the things I cannot stop myself from doing? What are the types of tasks? What are the types of things with my friends? Et cetera, et cetera. And I just think that was something so awesome for me because it's pretty obvious, (1) it’s not that hard to identify them.

(10:54) You just gotta spend some time thinking about it. But (2), it served me so well to know those things and be able to identify in my life, like, how can I get more of that? And it's not always like you can only get it by playing basketball, and in this one particular action in the basketball game. It’s like, for example, I really like to spend time reflecting on things and like, “Am I in alignment with my values?”

(11:27) I like to spend time on that stuff. And so when it comes to my work, I like to spend time on what I'm doing and how I'm providing value to the end user of whatever I'm building or showing, right? So it's like understanding how that is something I can't spend time on. It’s something I wanna spend time on every day, but how can I create that in my current job, right? So those kind of things that just fill us up, that like I said, we can't not do. We can't not think about that. It's just in us. We are just wired that way. And finding in your career, but also your life, just ways to get that and find the people that support that and don't shut it down too, you know.

(12:00) If I really like to ask questions and I'm really curious in general, and then I come to let's say, I go to a company, and everybody just shuts down my questions, “Don't ask about that. That’s not your role.” Okay, well, too bad, I wanna learn. And so being in the places and relationships where that's supported is how I've been able to use that knowledge.

(12:30) Scott Anthony Barlow: I think something that makes me think of, too, is that. If you have these areas, you can't stop yourself for doing, like, you just use the example of reflection for yourself.

(12:41) So, “I have to reflect, I have to spend time on that. I can't not do that.” But if you're continuously denied that opportunity to reflect, or you intentionally, for long periods of time, are denying yourself that opportunity to reflect. I mean, there can be value to that, but if it's not on an ongoing basis and you know, it's happening on the regular, then couple things that we've seen from doing this type of work since whatever, it's been 2012, 2013, is that those are the areas.

(13:12) Those are the times where people really start to question themselves. Those are the areas that can rapidly erode to losing confidence. Those are the areas that can cause people to eventually start to fall into the areas where it's impacting their mental health.

(13:26) So if we relate it back to what we just acknowledged earlier, I'm gonna guess, and I don't know anything about it. 'Cause I wasn't in there for every single step of the way. Our team got to play co-pilot for part of it. But I would guess that that's probably part of what contributed to what was going on at Tesla, if we look back, where you're going so fast all the time without any opportunity for reflection that that started to erode some areas of your mental health.

(13:57) Keith Penningroth: Yeah, 100%. It wasn't just lack of reflection, but it was some of the other values I have, of like or signature strengths I should say, that I wasn't getting to use, I wasn't getting to do, and they weren't rewarded, and that definitely contributes to the negative mental health consequences you know intrusive thoughts more negative thinking just depressive like thoughts and yeah.

(14:20) So realizing my signature strengths and that I don't get to use them was a big, “Oh. No wonder I feel that way. No wonder I feel terrible.” And it's so powerful to have that knowledge. Like it really is powerful because you, with that knowledge, can create a more powerful full version of yourself that doesn't feel so you know not confident or questioning yourself all the time, asking yourself, “Why am I here? Why am I doing this?” You're trying to run a rocket on car fuel.

(14:57) It's like, yeah, you can do it, but it kind of sucks, and it's not proficient. You’re fighting really, really hard when you could be using rocket fuel. You gotta know what the rocket fuel is.

(15:11) Scott Anthony Barlow: Thinking about your strengths, what now is such a better fit? What are a couple examples of those? And then how does that actually look in the real world for you on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis now in this new role?

(15:26) Keith Penningroth: So I think one of my signature strengths, if I remember back, was the Woo.

(15:32) Scott Anthony Barlow: Sure, yeah. CliftonStrengths Finder has these 34 strength themes, where one of them is called “Woo.”

(15:39) Keith Penningroth: I kind of think about my signature strengths in terms of vocabulary they used just because I like the—

(15:44) Scott Anthony Barlow: Oh yeah, they do a great job. It's much easier if we have vocabulary to describe this for sure.

(15:49) Keith Penningroth: Yeah, in my last job, I didn't have that. I didn't have opportunities to win others over. I didn't have opportunities to kind of perform and like get on stage or promote myself or the people I'm working with. And so now I have a job where I literally am paid to do that. Like my job is to help customers and potential customers understand the value of things. It is to win them over by helping them understand the value to them. And so I think that is one way I get that in my current role, but then also just outside of life, just thinking about like how I can be considerate to people that are important to me, and whether that's sending them a text.

(16:31) Just kind of not necessarily winning them over, but really just letting them know that I really care about them. Yeah, it's something that I really get a lot of satisfaction out of doing, letting 'em know that I care for them and that they feel that. So my friends, my girlfriend, my family, just trying to do that type of stuff on a regular basis, on a weekly basis. If it can be in person, that's amazing. But yeah, it just fills me up. Another one I would just say is empathy would be a signature strength of mine. I really want to make sure people feel like I’m not judging them. And so , trying to create spaces where I can do that, 'cause we all have shit going on in our lives.

(17:13) Trying to do that for my friends and family. Just check in with them, “Hey, how are you doing? You mentioned this thing last time. How’s that going for you?” My last one, really, I would just say is detail-oriented.

(17:24) That's a big signature strength of mine. I get pretty into the details, and sometimes when I'm rushed, I don't get time to do that, and that frustrates me. So just making sure I have time on a daily basis that's blocked off for certain things I wanna work on, right, like really distractions away. I just get to focus on this thing, and everything else is just gonna have to wait. Sometimes it's literally impossible, unfortunately. But when I get that, I find I'm much more focused on my work and also just content.

(17:52) Scott Anthony Barlow: Sure. Now that you're more aligned with your strengths, what are some of the differences in how it feels for you on a day-to-day basis?

(18:07) Keith Penningroth: Oh, I don’t dread. I don’t dread.

(18:10) Scott Anthony Barlow: Well, that's important.

(18:12) Keith Penningroth: I actually notice my stress is definitely down, and with that, my body has literally changed, like just the way I look. I'm not a super fit or anything, but I look more fit. Just sheerly by having less stress. And I think the stress impacts your cortisol. That does have an impact on how your body looks.

(18:30) Scott Anthony Barlow: Absolutely. When you continuously produce that cortisol, then it creates that body type of response where it's going to start packing on pounds, packing on extra weight, et cetera.

(18:41) Keith Penningroth: Yeah, I remember I used to—for the two years I was at Tesla, I built this like this tension in my traps every day. I remember every single day, and when I was done with that job, it was gone, and it hasn't come back.

(18:57) Scott Anthony Barlow: Just overnight?

(18:59) Keith Penningroth: Literally, I swear it was gone. It was like I had my last day, we ate tacos, and I went home, and I remember waking up the next day and being like, “That’s not there anymore.” And I haven’t felt that in this job, maybe unless I have like six cups of coffee, but yeah.

(19:21) Scott Anthony Barlow: So what else has replaced that then in terms of feelings? Definitely hear you on the no dread, less stress, and also lack of tight traps, tension in the traps. What has filtered in to replace that? What are the other feelings?

(19:41) Keith Penningroth: I think excitement about my life and work and feeling like I wanna get up for things. So just feeling more fulfilled and happy and like, “Oh man, I got some new time now 'cause I'm not working on this side hustle thing.” “Oh man, I really wanna learn music or whatever it is.” Like getting excited about the prospect that I'm gonna have some more time, and what am I gonna do with that?

(20:05) So I think that has taken some place of some of those feelings that have kind of held me back from those feelings. They block those.

(20:15) Also, I would just say a greater capacity to care for others, like in the past, I wasn't dating my girlfriend when I was at Tesla, and I actually don’t think it could have worked when I was there.

(20:29) I literally don't think I had the capacity to date somebody. I actually tried, and they all failed, and it felt like I couldn't manage. It was just too much. I didn't have the space. It felt like, and yeah. So I just feel like I have more space to be a good human being and actually give a shit about other people. So yeah.

(20:51) Scott Anthony Barlow: Let's say that we're going back a couple of years here, or even just one year, and you're in the space where it's obvious this is not a fit.

(21:02) You're not feeling like you have the capacity to be able to be the person that you want to be. You recognize that something's going on, but maybe don't feel like you have the capacity to totally deal with it too. For somebody who's in that same space, what advice would you give them?

(21:18) Keith Penningroth: Ooh. The space where they feel like they don't have the capacity, and they're just kind of overwhelmed with these negative things?

(21:23) Scott Anthony Barlow: Yeah. They know that they're in the wrong situation. Essentially, you from not that long ago. Because we've certainly got many of those folks that are listening or watching and having just gone through some version of that, what advice would you give that person?

(21:37) Keith Penningroth: I've thought about this before, and I've been fortunate to share what I feel I've been lucky to learn is get really clear on what you value. What do you value, right?

(21:44) When it comes to your whole life, do you value a lot of freedom? Do you value spending time with loved ones? Do you value personal growth, like what are the things you really value? Start there, and then start to look at the ways that your life is not meeting those or doesn't align with it, right? Whether it's relationships, friends, your job. That's a big one. Just your habits. What things are you doing that don't align with those?

(22:14) And then ask yourself, “What can I do, if anything, to make changes? What is possible?” Start really small, right? So don't try to change everything in a day. Don't try to change your 10 habits, your job, all in one week. That’s too hard.

(22:30) Start really small. What can I focus on now? Or spend 20 minutes a day, or maybe it's even an hour a week. Something really small. What can I spend a little time on to make a change to that? The ways I'm doing one thing to this value and just start there and kind of see how that—maybe you get some momentum and that shifts things a little bit.

(22:51) And then the other piece would be talk about it. Go talk to somebody whom you trust, or you care for, they care for you, or whoever you can. Like, literally, maybe it's your coworker. Whoever you can, whoever you have access to, like go talk about it, just tell ‘em where you're at, what you're thinking, and see what kind of feedback they have.

(23:12) The work that you all do and people do with Happen To Your Career is so invaluable. For me to be honest, I was a little bit hesitant at first. Like, “Ah, man, I don't wanna spend the money. I could do something else with that.” But when you invest in yourself like that and really lean in and be honest with yourself, “Yeah, the job I'm in, it's not aligning, and I'm not happy.”

(23:37) It's so invaluable because I think those type of negative experiences are just, they really, really weigh on you and they're very costly. You can't put a price on em and you can't put a price on getting out of that because we all know life is hard, and if you can go through it and feel lighter and more full, self-full like that, you can't put a price on that.

(24:05) So, yeah, I would just say if you're questioning, like lean in, if you're questioning doing that type of career coaching work or work with Happen To Your Career, like lean in, and yeah, it's so worth it.

If you're ready to stop believing the stories that are actually keeping you stuck and start creating the career and the life that you want, drop me an email directly, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. We'll connect you with the right person on our team, and we'll figure out the very best way that we can support you.

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