598: Transitioning from Burnout to a Fulfilling Career with a Bridge Role

Amanda Love 00:01

I recognized I was burnt out. And here I am, thinking, corporate America just quit. I won't be burned out. That solves my problem, moving on. And it really did not. At all.

Introduction 00:18

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does, and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:41

When you're burned out, it's easy to think that finding the perfect role will fix everything, but that's not how burnout works. Simply leaving a job doesn't cure the burnout without giving yourself time to recover and get clear on next steps. Burnout has a way of following you around. But here's the real challenge, not everyone can afford to take a complete break from their career to recover. And that's often where we recommend what we would call a 'bridge role' or an intermediary role. A well chosen bridge role can give you the time and space to step back, reset, and figure out what you really want out of your career transition. Think about a bridge role as a strategic step in the right direction, an intentional step building the bridge to your ideal career.

Amanda Love 01:31

I went to my husband and said, "I need something. I think I can leverage my network to find something that'll help keep the kids fed" because they're teenage boys, "and then we'll be good to go. And once everything picks up, we'll just go from there and decide when it's time for me to step away from this other role."

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:56

That's Amanda Love. Amanda spent the majority of her career working for the world's largest retailer, managing mobility. She was exceptional at her job, but being so good at it came at a cost. She realized too late that she had allowed herself to be overworked to the point of burnout, and she knew she needed to quit. When she started looking for a new role, she thought that her burnout would disappear right away and everything would go back to normal. But that's not what happened. Amanda continued to feel the lingering effects of burnout, and finally hit a breaking point. She realized that something needed to change, but not just her job–her entire approach–and that's when we got to meet her and start working with her. She decided she needed to stop chasing roles without knowing what she really wanted, and instead, she focused on finding a bridge role that gave her some breathing room and allowed her to create an intentional career change. Before we jump in, I just want to point out what we mean when we say bridge role or bridge opportunity. What we usually mean, it's an opportunity that is leading you to the longer term goal of your ideal career in one way or another. And many times, we're looking at it as multi purpose, not necessarily just for the sole purpose of income, but maybe using it as an experiment in a certain industry, or to see if you like one thing or another, or to be able to build relationships in a certain place. In all cases, you're going to hear more about Amanda's experience leveraging a bridge opportunity. All right, let's get to our conversation. Here's Amanda talking about the early days of her career.

Amanda Love 03:31

So right after graduating college with a degree in psychology and zero direction on where to use a degree like that, I jumped straight into sales because I knew I wanted to do...

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:44

Obviously, psychology going to sales.

Amanda Love 03:47

Exactly, psychology-sales. And my mentor at the time told me, "Doesn't matter what you sell, go sell something, and then you'll have this whole data to show people and say, 'look at what I've done. I'm great at sales.'" So I got into the mobility space and worked for several mobility retailers. I wanted to get out of that. Went ahead and got out of that, and ended up at the world's largest retailer managing mobility because it's all familiar, insane. My career at this large retailer was a roller coaster. I'll be honest. There were lots of high highs and lots of low lows. And the low lows were the things that really started to get me down, and I could not find people willing to get behind my development and continue to invest in me. And I felt like that was not consistent with what I was hearing around the office that, "Hey, you can have any career here. Just make a pivot and we'll support you." And those things really never happened for me. So I went ahead and left corporate America to do I'm not sure. I started looking for jobs, got offered a job, worked for this company for 30 days. It was a tech startup. And I quickly realized that tech startups were not for me, and I left and decided, "You know what? I'll start my own business. I'll do exactly what I already know to do– sales." And I became a sales broker for retail partners and vendors, and kind of bringing those folks together. That was kind of the last step, I would say, Scott, that it still didn't feel right. It still didn't feel rewarding or fulfilling. I thought leaving corporate America was the answer, and it wasn't. It really wasn't. And my husband was the propellant for change for me. He was in the mortgage industry for years and years and years, and hated every single second of it. He came to me one evening and said, "I think I want to do video game design." Talk about a 180. And I said, "I support you. Go do what you need to do to learn and get a job." He did those things. I sat down with him, we crafted his resume, we looked at all of the job postings and made sure to bring all of the buzzwords together, and I prepped him for his interviews. We talked about how he had transferable skills, like, we did every single step that I know you teach, and he got a job with an amazing video game company that relocated us to North Carolina. And that was really him being able to prove to me it could be done. And he did it. And then us moving, our family, picking up and moving, that was the catalyst for change for me that I got to hit the reset button and say, "You know what? I want to find out what aligns and will be fulfilling for me, and I've got to find someone who help, who can help with that." And enter Happen To Your Career and my amazing coach, Amy.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:05

Was there any particular moment or set of moments that you recall that led up to that?

Amanda Love 07:10

I would say, I wanted what he had. And I told him that very specifically. Because I saw how excited he got when he would learn something new, or when he could show off his skills to appear, or his supervisors, and they didn't know he had that skill. And he would get just so bubbly and exuberant. And I wasn't talking about my career like that anymore. But now, I'm like, "Ah, I just want this day to be over." I wanted that. And I told him, "I want what you have."

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:50

That's very cool. Very cool. Another thing that, before we move on, you were talking about how you, you know, career wasn't working out, and so you made a transition, you thought that leaving corporate would be the thing, right? And I think that that's really common, it's an incredibly common action, and it seems really logical as a thought process. "Hey, if I do this one thing, if I remove what I perceive as the biggest challenge, then it should be amazingly better, right?"And it sounds like it wasn't for you. There was no exuberance, as you said earlier, that followed. So when you look back now, what do you feel like it really was? Or what combination of things, maybe, that it was? If you were to go back and do this all over again, obviously, it led you to here, so it's okay. But what do you think now? How do you think about it?

Amanda Love 08:53

You know, when I look back on the struggles that I had in corporate America, and it doesn't matter if it was the most recent that happened or further back in my career, anytime I had "an issue" with something or someone, it was very projected. That person is no longer on my list, and we get really stuck in those cycles. But what I have come to realize through career coaching, and I have a therapist, right? So I have all of these inputs coming in reminding me that, you know, it's about my own perspective and it's about my own projection, and because I was failing to understand or not communicating appropriately and still not understanding how to story tell, those were the things that I was falling short of and never acknowledging and projecting those shortcomings on others. So what I've really come to learn is, the more I know about myself, the more inward reflective I am. I can take myself out of the situation and be a lot more unbiased and think through the other person's perspective and mine, and then we can have a better dialogue around how we move to next. And I would tell you that I have taken my own program, as I'm auditing my own program, because I had to get a bridge job to pay. I have teenage boys to feed, so I've gotta, you know, have something to feed them as I build my business, and I've audited my program, and I've brought all of these things to the job in corporate America again, and it's amazing. The amount of respect that I receive for setting boundaries, the amount of respect I receive for communicating clearly, the amount of respect I receive for going, you know what? I might have been a little hot to trot on that one. Let me back up and hear your side of the story. And it's really gone really far for me, even in a few months in this role.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:05

That's really cool. That's really cool. So with your kids, and I heard you say that part of this for you, part of this long term pursuing of what you really want to be doing required some level of, I'm going to call it fundraising, in the form of bridge opportunity or a bridge role, right? What made you decide that that's a great direction for you?

Amanda Love 11:34

I did not decide that for myself. My anxiety did.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:38

That is... I'm default. Either way, it got decided. Tell me about that guy.

Amanda Love 11:45

You know, I went to my husband and said, "I need something. I think I can leverage my network to find something that'll help keep the kids fed" because they're teenage boys, "and then we'll be good to go. And once everything picks up, we'll just go from there and decide when it's time for me to step away from this other role." And he was really supportive, and my network came through for me in dividends. So yeah, it was kind of decided for me, for my anxiety, because I needed to make sure that we were going to be okay, and that was the peace of mind that gave me, or I guess, that was the action that gave me the peace of mind that I needed.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:29

So if I'm understanding you correctly, then, you're saying that not having that continuous form of income, in one way or another, not having that continuous, I'm going to call it relationship, in the form of what we're calling a bridge role here, bridge opportunity, which we should probably define too for a moment. A lot of times when we say bridge opportunity, we usually mean an opportunity or role, or in this case, job, that is leading you to the longer term goal in one way or another. So what do you feel like this bridge role has really done for you?

Amanda Love 13:09

It's done a couple of things for me. So what's great about it is that it's pretty easy for my skill set, and I'm able to get a lot of the work done in a much shorter amount of time than maybe some of the some others in this role. So that's kind of a plus for me, because it gives me a lot of balance to be able to go and respond on social media to anything, or to reach out and email my clients. So that's really great. The other component I touched on earlier is that it's given me an opportunity to see if what I put together as my program works. And it does.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:49

It's important, as it turns out. Yeah, I guess one of the things I'm thinking about as I'm listening to pieces of your journey, your story, is that it sounds like, when you say things like, "Hey, my anxiety decided for me." That although this absolutely sounds like the right decision for you that you made, it sounds like maybe it wasn't the easiest decision in one way or another. Tell me a little bit about what was going on at that time that led you to say, "Oh yeah, this is happening because this is going to be a better path forward. It'll allow me to manage my anxiety" and anything else that you've benefited from it.

Amanda Love 14:28

Sure. I went through, and I'm a budgeter, I like my Excel spreadsheets. So I had gone through and kind of ran some numbers and I had told my husband that if I did not hit a certain dollar amount by a certain date, which was by December of this year, we were not going to be able to continue to live the lifestyle that we have grown accustomed to. And while that's okay, we have pulled back and those things are just part of life. Sometimes we add, sometimes we flow. It was more about, it would make me feel better if I could contribute to the household income. And knowing it was not long term, I leveraged my network, got really excited, told everyone in the interview as they asked me things like, "Where do you plan to be here in five years?" And like, "I don't plan to be here in five years. Thanks for the question." I was extremely transparent during even the interview process that this is a stopover for me. And then on day one I started, and I clocked out at five and turned to my husband and said, "I don't like it. I hate this. I hate this so much. I do not even want to continue to do this, but I know I need to do this because I committed to the family to bring in money." By Friday of that week, I said, "Oh, this is going to be great. Because I know more than they think I know, and this is going to be amazing", and it has been. But that very first day that I even started, I even left, clocked out and said, "This is not for me", and it really is not for me long term. I know that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:22

Yeah, absolutely. And that was part of the intention. What caused you, do you think, in that first day or two to really question that? Because obviously, you know, you got to the end of the week and you're like, "No, this is actually going to be really great, and it's going to not only serve the purpose, but be better than I thought it might be." But that clearly wasn't how you felt on day one. So what was the big difference now looking back on it?

Amanda Love 16:46

I think day one, day two, they were a little... they weren't familiar with me– my leaders and my peers. And so there were a lot of, "I'll call you in a couple of hours and see how you're doing. I'll call you in a couple hours and give you more work to do." I'm over here going time out. Please don't load my plate with a lot of filler work. And originally I thought this is the cadence they're setting. This is the tone. And really what it came down to was, we don't have anything for you to work on and jump into straight away. So why don't you learn about the company? And looking back, I could probably provide that feedback to my boss and say, "Hey, next time, just put that out there. And I think that'll be a little more helpful to people to know that you're not a micromanager and I'm not going to do busy work all day. I'm going to do meaningful work for you, and you'll let me just go on my own." And that's exactly what she does now. But those first two days, I really thought I made the wrong decision.

Scott Anthony Barlow 17:50

It took a couple of days to get there. Well, kudos to you for giving it more than just the snap judgment and then continuing to have conversations. And it sounds like it has worked out well.

Amanda Love 18:02

Exactly.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:03

That's amazing. What advice would you give to someone who is in a similar situation where they're wanting to pursue a shorter term role, like a bridge opportunity, and they're trying to figure out, like, "how do I make this work?" and they know they're not going to be there forever, kind of similar to what you did, what advice would you give to that person?

Amanda Love 18:23

I would say, to do your research. If you don't have that internal connection, go ahead, do your research, find out what you can find out so you're prepared and be very transparent in the interview process that you're looking to learn, to grow, and to really understand if this is a good fit for you, and don't be afraid to share that. I think that that's probably the biggest thing that even I was a little uncertain to share and be transparent with people I did not know who were interviewing me and making a decision about my employment, that was really scary to say, "Look, I'm not going to be here in five years, but thanks for asking. I appreciate that." And knowing on the backside, having been in hiring in the past, knowing that that's kind of a cost analysis that they've got to make on the fly, it's scary. But you kind of read the room, you bring it up at the right time, and you make sure that you spin it in a way that's really exciting and positive. If you just say, "Look, I am not going to be here for five years, so..."

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:37

Deal with it.

Amanda Love 19:38

They're going to move on. "Hey, I'm here to make a really great impact and set you up for success. So that when you hire my replacement, you will have exactly what you need to continue down that path of success."

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:54

You know, I think it's always fascinating to me is most people like the average interview is people coming in and they're sharing what they think, whoever they're talking to that represents the company, wants to hear, right? Like, that's your average interview. The BS is palpable in many different ways on both sides, not even intentionally, necessarily. That's just how it tends to happen. But what I think is really fun and interesting is that when you're addressing in a more transparent, more authentic way, people are tended to be attracted to that. Not always. And you know, if it isn't a fit, it allows people to talk more openly about how it's not right a fit, and then not to waste a ton of time through the interview process. And then, you know, people can move on. But I think more often than not, my experience has been in for myself, and then also all the people that we get to help that when you're able to be much more open, at least open in a way that serves the people that you're talking to, it tends to produce better results. And you know what? Here's what's really funny, like, the data says that people are not going to be there beyond five years, anyways. It's a rarity. So why are we all pretending that, you know, we're going to be there for more years? Yeah. Exactly. Really nice job. And I really appreciate you sharing that part of your story. I think the other thing that really stands out to me is that you had a number of times where either anxiety or mental health came up and impacted this transition as a whole. And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about some of those other times. We've already talked about one in particular. But I think this is a real thing that many, many people experience, and it doesn't always get talked about in so many different forums. So would you be willing to share a little bit about where else this came up in your process?

Amanda Love 22:06

Absolutely. So here I am thinking, "I have to quit corporate America because I'm burnt out." I recognized I was burnt out. And here I am thinking, "Corporate America just quit. I won't be burnt out. That solves my problem. Moving on." And it never really did not. At all. And I didn't know what I didn't know, and I didn't know how to find what would be fulfilling. I think what I did was I went to Google and said, "Who can help me find what I should do in my career?" And there you were. And I did the mini course, and went, "I'm already leaps and bounds ahead. Let me go ahead and sign up for this program." But when I started working with my coach, one of the first things she said, "So we were supposed to have a 30 minute call" an hour and a half later, she let me at least go on and cry. And I cried and cried to my new coach, who did not know me from anybody else. And at the end, she said, "I want you... It's all out. Now, I want you to dance on it and find you a therapist." And I took her advice because I'm here wanting to learn. If I'm not going to take the advice, then just throw it away. So I called and set up a therapist, and I learned so much about why I was burnt out. I was burnt out because I didn't have great boundaries. I was burnt out because I was constantly looking for praise from everyone. I just wanted to be validated. I can validate myself today, but then I couldn't. And I didn't realize these things were missing in my life, and they were driving a lot of my unwellness, just feeling like yuck every day and not seeing the sunshine in my life. So bringing those two components to someone who can help me find a direction and someone who could help me understand me, that was peace and resistance.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:17

Oh, my goodness. That is amazing. And I'm really fascinated to... One of the things I'll tell you is we work with a lot of people that also are working with a therapist. And we don't have, this is a place where I'd love to collect data, this is the analytical side of me that jumps out here. But my working theory is that people who are making big changes in their lives, whether it be specific to career or otherwise, tend to work much faster and more effectively than, well, let's use the case that we see all the time as an example here. Like, if we're working with somebody, if they're also working with a therapist, our observations are that they tend to be a lot more effective if they're working with both us and a therapist. So you know, you did a great job deciding after your coach, in this case, Amy, had suggested that to you. You still had to make the decision to go and do it. And it sounds like it was a wonderful experience for you. But I'm curious what your observations are. What did that help with as you're going through these big changes in your life, and what maybe were the surprises along the way for you?

Amanda Love 25:34

I think the surprise for me along the way was that my... and I touched on it previously. I issue my burnout was maybe magnified by the person I reported to. But the problem was mine to begin with. And I was not expecting the problem to be mine to begin with. I was expecting this problem to have been theirs and someone on my side going, "You're right. That person was awful", and that did not happen at all. And it was a real eye opener for me that because I allowed this person to come to me and asked me to work late on special projects, or would call me on my day off and have me work, or request that I work. And I would say, "yes". My kids were off doing things, and I should have been with them. And kids don't keep. Children don't keep. And guess what? I don't even speak to this individual anymore, but my kids are still here, and now they're grown. And so there really was no respect for my balance. And that wasn't their problem, that wasn't their fault. I allowed that. And having that look in the mirror that it was what I allowed was probably the biggest and most surprising for me, less than I learned out of therapy.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:07

That's really cool. I think that's maybe one of the biggest surprises that I see over and over again, not just for working with a therapist, but for maybe...

Amanda Love 27:18

Maybe as a coach.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:19

Yeah, absolutely. I think that so many people, when they're thinking about making big career moves or even small career moves, in one way or another, they go through what you experienced where it's like, okay, it's obviously the boss, or it's obviously the schedule, or it's obviously, and we're externalizing, or, you know, you called it projecting, it onto something else. And what we tend to find is that, yes, in part, it is about identifying and aligning the right situation or environment or some of those external pieces with what creates a more fulfilling life for us as individuals. But the other part that's just as big is that behavioral piece. And it's really, really difficult to, one, acknowledge where we need to change our behaviors. And then two, actually do it. And you have done quite a bit of both. So that's really fun to see.

Amanda Love 28:17

It has not been easy. I will say that. It has not been easy. There have been easy components, but there have been times during the process that I was so mentally and physically exhausted from all of the work that I was putting into myself or my program or whatever. It would put me straight to bed at five o'clock, you know, because it, like you said earlier, those that work with a coach and a therapist move a little bit faster, and I felt like I was moving at the speed of light sometimes. This is too much.

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:57

It creates problems, but better problems, right?

Amanda Love 29:01

Better problems. Great problems to have. Absolutely.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:04

Yes, yeah. Oh, that's funny. That's really interesting. For somebody else who's in a similar situation that is interested in doing their own thing in one way or another, tell me a little bit about that. Particularly, you know, now that you have been heading down this road for a while, and you've been pursuing your own business and have been actively building it in various different stages, and having gone and gotten a bridge role to be able to supplement and all the other things that we just talked about. I'm curious, what are your learnings? If you could go back and do it again, what do you feel like you did really well that you would say, "Oh, yeah, definitely consider this."? And what do you feel like you would change that you'd give people advice on?

Amanda Love 29:51

My answer might be a little cliche, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:55

Say it anyway out there.

Amanda Love 29:58

Wouldn't change a single thing, except one thing, and it would have been to start sooner.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:05

What makes you say that? That's awesome. I feel that. And also what causes you to say that?

Amanda Love 30:10

So I built my program around burnout and not getting to the point that I was at where I sat in a corner crying because I felt broken. And I don't want anyone to get there. So I would have started sooner, and I wouldn't have let the burnout get so bad. It took me away from my family, which is my happy place for too long. Sorry.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:41

No need to apologize at all. I think that the part I love about this for you, that even though, like, this is deeply emotional for you, it is also deeply emotional for you and that you care about it tremendously and you care about preventing it for other people, and I really, really resonate with that. What do you feel like, now that we're already in tears, what do you feel is the hardest part of all of this up to this point?

Amanda Love 31:18

I think the hardest part is getting over imposter syndrome. Especially knowing that that background that I've shared about no boundaries, needing validation, having people that I was starting to surround myself with, that believed in me when I couldn't, believed in me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:38

Who are those people for you?

Amanda Love 31:40

Amy was one of them. And the gal that I've been working with doing training stuff contracts. Her name is Andorra. She's a mother. My husband. I probably should have said his name first, but...

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:52

It's okay. In no particular order.

Amanda Love 31:55

In no particular order. My husband, my kids. But you get, you kind of get, or at least I do, I get stuck in this like "but you don't live in my life. You don't experience what I experience. So I'm right and you're wrong. Because I can only see it through this lens." But the more I realized, the more people saw my own capabilities and they weren't speaking to each other, but they were saying the same things to me.

Amanda Love 32:25

I started to believe it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:25

They're not colluding on this.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:28

That's amazing. So you were seeing the, let's call it, evidence, in a variety of different places, which allowed you to even begin to believe for yourself what all of these other people were seeing.

Amanda Love 32:40

Yes, 100%. It's so hard to hear it and believe it if you don't believe it yourself, but when you continue to hear it from relatively strangers, and they say these things about you, it's because you exude those things, those qualities, and you're probably just not giving yourself enough credit for it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:05

Yeah. And I think that that is, in many ways, very human. I think a lot of people, my observation is that a lot of people experience that. And we're also really good as humans about just focusing on the one part and not necessarily the really positive pieces of evidence. Sometimes it has to hit us from many different people or many different situations before we believe it. So there's that side too.

Amanda Love 33:33

Yep, you're right. You're 100% right. So this move, this reset button that I have done to completely take the opportunity that now we live in a different state and we're making brand new friends, I've used it as an opportunity to really just rebrand who I am and be authentic. And, you know, we talk about authenticity across a lot of different places in the workforce, and I don't know that bring your authentic self to work really means bring your authentic self to work. And I'm trying it on for size, and it really means bring your authentic self to work, and if it doesn't, it's probably not a good fit.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:23

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:15

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 35:21

I love saying the motto, like, "sometimes you have to slow down to speed up." And that truly was what I was doing. I had to slow down for a second to be able to come in with a fresh perspective. Because I don't think if I did that, if I did not do that, I don't think I would have been able to think of some of the potential solutions or directions that I could have gone in.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:43

Sometimes, the hardest part of a career change isn't figuring out the next step. It's trusting yourself enough to take that next step.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:53

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it, and if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player, so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, until next week. Adios, I'm out.