It’s not like butterflies, it’s more like anxious nerves starting to kick into high gear.
You park, hesitate for a moment in the car before walking up to the building, sigh, and wonder to yourself, “Do I really *have* to today?”
But if you’re anything like the thousands of people we’ve helped, there’s a part of your brain that probably also pipes up and says: “Appreciate what you have! This is a stable job with good benefits, is impressive to other people, and gives you vacation and sick leave. And leaving would have huge consequences on your family, your mortgage payments…what would you even do instead?”
Or, even more scary: “What if I change jobs and it’s worse?”
It makes it really painful to start to answer the question: Should I Quit My Job?
But it doesn’t have to be.
Here are four questions to help you weigh the Pros and Cons of quitting your job — versus some of the possible potential upside of staying.
Nail down your “Why” to figure out the How
The first question to answer is the most important: why do I want to leave in the first place? What is driving my decision?
Don’t skate past this question; this is deeper than it seems on first blush.
To get to the bottom of it, write out every single reason, petty or gigantic, that’s motivating your desire to leave. Give yourself 10 minutes of uninterrupted time where your pen never leaves the paper to get them all out of your brain.
Then, take a look at what you’re feeling and thinking. Look for big trends, and look for the reasons that feel particularly emotionally charged.
When you have perspective and can evaluate your reasons outside of your brain, are you wanting to leave because you’re running away from something?
POTENTIALLY RUNNING AWAY = My coworker drives me crazy. I work insane hours. I got demoralizing feedback on a recent project. I didn’t get a big enough raise this last promotion cycle. My manager and I have communication issues.
Running away from setting boundaries or asking for what you truly want can mean that the next job you run into will have the same old baggage and negative behavior patterns, so you’re right to worry about whether it will be an upgrade. If you’re getting the sense you might be running away from a role and haven’t exhausted your options to make the situation better, check out our recent podcast with Melody Wilding on harnessing powerful emotions to set strong boundaries at work.
PROBABLY RUNNING TOWARD = I want to learn a new skill that I can’t find here. I’ve tried to get chances to do an internal pivot onto a new project, but have all been unsupported. This organization no longer aligns with my values. My manager isn’t championing me internally, so I’m less effective here. I’m ready to move to a new state, and can’t transfer with this organization.
However, if you can look at your list of reasons to leave and see that you’ve done everything in your power to make it work for you — and it won’t — it’s great to see why you need to leave outlined so explicitly. You now have a motivational manifesto as to why it’s time to quit and move on.
Get your finances in order to make it happen – fast.
The second question to consider if you know quitting is the right move for you is: do I have the “runway” to do it now?
“Runway” means: do you have the savings in the bank to allow for you to be okay if you don’t get another job right away?
Here’s how you calculate your current financial runway: log into each of your bank accounts, and add up all the cash you have available to you in your checking and savings accounts. Look at your investments and add the value of the ones that are easier to liquefy and get out if needed (meaning: count personal investment amounts as part of your “runway” cash pot, but not 401(k) investments).
Then, take a look at your monthly spending over the past ~3 months, and come up with your average monthly spend. Include things like health insurance that your current employer might be subsidizing.
To determine your rough financial runway, take your total cash amount, and divide it by your average monthly spend. That tells you how many months you could go without any income (and fairly light adjustments of your spending) before you’d be in trouble.
For some people, this financial runway calculation looks like this:
Total “liquifiable” and/or cash assets: $40,000 in cash, $18,000 in liquifiable investments = $58,000
Rough financial runway estimate: $58,000/$3,200 = ~18 months (18.125 months)
For others, it might be closer to this:
Average monthly spending: $6,600
Total “liquifiable” and/or cash assets: $20,000 in cash, $5,000 in liquifiable investments = $25,000
Rough financial runway estimate: $25,000/$6,600 = ~3 months (Really it’s closer to 3.8 months, but I’d recommend you round down)
If doing this calculation leaves you in a cold sweat, don’t leave yourself vulnerable. You’ll probably want a financial runway like this on hand regardless of whether you’re thinking of quitting or not, because losing a job unexpectedly or having a sudden illness hit would also require you to have funds on hand. Start increasing your savings now. I did this in the past by asking for a raise and lowering my expenses so I needed less cash to get by each month. For ideas on how to ask for a raise, check out this episode of the podcast.
The other consideration as you’re calculating financial runway to quit your job might also be: do I have any liabilities or future gains that might make this more challenging? Are there things that I owe a lot of money on, upcoming large medical procedures that I’d like to use my employer’s coverage to pay for, or bonuses, vacation that doesn’t cash out, or other compensation on the table that I’d lose if I left now? Did my employer pay for my most recent degree, and I’d owe them some reimbursement if I left now? Understanding the financial logistics of leaving can be incredibly illuminating on whether now is the right time to quit, or if there are ways you can better take care of yourself before saying goodbye.
Consult your most important stakeholders for consensus
The third question is in terms of impact of your decision: who else has a vested interest in the outcome of this decision, and are they onboard and committed to making the same decision?
For me, a clear and obvious impact of my employment decision is how it affects my wife Alyssa and our kids.
Alyssa and I are a team, and I rarely do anything major in my business without consulting her and getting her feedback first. Not only is she incredibly smart and insightful when it comes to strategic decisions, but she’s also supportive while pointing out potential flaws in my master plans. And because I’m typically the breadwinner for our family, any dramatic decisions that I make about my work and paycheck have an immediate impact on her and the kids. So in order to feel like I’m acting in integrity, I need to make sure that she and I are in agreement about what’s right for me and for our family.
When I left my HR job at Target, I didn’t do a good job of involving Alyssa in that decision, and ended up putting her through a ton of stress that made me feel like a jerk. I’ve learned from that experience that bringing her into both the decision and the contingency planning process early and often is the best thing to do for our partnership, relationship, and friendship to stay strong.
The final question is: what’s going to be required for me to make a substantial life change like this?
Let me explain. In order to get results that are different from what you’ve always gotten, you have to take action in ways that are different from what you’ve always done.
For me, that meant finding more time. When I was working a 9-to-5 job and also being a dad, that was no small feat. I realized that I needed to do the most important things first in my day, so I started getting up early.
Really early. Like, 4am early.
And I would do things like record podcast episodes that early. Because when you’re committed to finding a way, and you’re willing to be flexible on the “how,” you can create awesome opportunities for yourself. We have Career Change Bootcamp students who make their transition by having the discipline to do their coursework and their homework assignments during their lunch break at work each day.
With Mike, he needed a break in between jobs to have the time and space to make his transition. So evaluate what’s true for you, and set yourself up for success.
To recap, here are the 4 questions to know if you should quit:
1) Why do you want to leave in the first place? What is driving the decision? Is it 100% emotion thinking it will be better or something you are able to run to versus running away from?
2) Do you have the runway, the savings, or more liabilities than you can afford?
3) Who else has a vested interest and are they onboard and committed to making the same decision?
4) What do you need personally in terms of breakthroughs to make this substantial life change? It is substantial and I don’t want people to underestimate that.
Anything you would add having done it yourself?
Ready to quit, but not sure what to transition into? Get a crash course to help you get clear on what you’re great at and what kind of work could fit you best in our 8-day mini-course. Sign up here!
Transcript from Episode
Scott Barlow: Welcome back to the Happen to Your Career podcast. I am ridiculously, uber excited to be here because we have a guest I interact with nearly every day over the last number of months. We’ve never brought him on the show. Actually he has been a listener of the show and now coming on as a guest; what a transition. Welcome to Happen to Your Career Mike Goodman. How are you today?
Mike Goodman: Hey Scott, I’m doing good thanks.
Scott Barlow: Perfect and as we said before we hit the record button I’d say better than perfect. You can’t ask for much better than that.
Mike Goodman: You cannot ask for more than that.
Scott Barlow: I’m particularly excited to have you in this format and have this conversation because you have an interesting story long before we brought you on the team. That is cool, behind the scenes Mike is a part of Happen to Your Career. What do you do on our team?
Mike Goodman: Basically I’m the first point of contact for anyone interested in utilizing Happen to Your Career services. I connect people with the services they need or what will be the most helpful whether it’s a coach or a resource on our website. I connect them to what will be the best fit.
Scott Barlow: I will say you do a phenomenal job at that.
Mike Goodman: Thank you.
Scott Barlow: I’m slightly biased but a little of the reason we put you in that place is you have been there yourself. You’ve been through what our listeners, readers, and viewers go through and how they find us. You know what it’s like.
Mike Goodman: I’ve lived it.
Scott Barlow: On that note I would love to dive into where your story starts. You have made a number of transitions long before we swiped you out of the work world to bring your talents to Happen to Your Career.
Mike Goodman: It’s been a curvy road. After college I held a number of entry level positions. I decided I wanted to pursue a career in higher education so I started working for a small liberal arts college in the marketing office. I really had fun with it at first. It was a cool way to learn. I was responsible for managing a website which I liked and the first point of contact for people that needed help with marketing. It was a fun role. Like any job I had previously held, it got stale.
While I was there I decided to take advantage of a tuition benefit and got another degree. I moved on to a different role. It was an advancement in title and pay. I never felt engaged in the new role but felt I needed to give it time. But as time went on my lack of engagement never changed but I maybe got more unengaged. The funny part is of all the jobs I had held full time I stayed there the longest. I started really not feeling like it was a fit but I stayed in it for almost five years. I think I got to a point where I thought I had changed jobs already a couple times and is there anything out there I will like.
What if I change jobs and it's worse? I did this routine for several years where I would apply for jobs, sometimes have an interview, sometimes go to the interview, or change my mind and not pursue it. Sometimes I’d go to the interview but then remove myself from the process because I wouldn’t feel excited. It wasn’t an improvement. This went on for too long, several years. I’d tell myself, the devil you know is better than the one you don’t know. On top of everything else I felt my mood was a constant state of blah.
Scott Barlow: Expand on that.
Mike Goodman: Nothing felt exciting. I didn’t have any clue what I wanted to do work wise. I didn’t have any excitement in my role. I would look around at other jobs and wonder what I was qualified for, what did my resume show. What was I going to find that is different than what I’m doing? Like most people you feel pigeonholed in that my resume states I’ve done this but how am I going to translate my experience to show I can do something different. I had an hour commute without traffic. It wasn’t uncommon to have a day where it could take two – three hours to get home or if weather was bad that long to get in. I was in a bad spiral and felt a constant state of blah which is the best way to phrase it.
Scott Barlow: That is interesting, probably not at the time, but so many people get stuck in that state. You are stuck in traffic many hours a day, gridlocked, and you are feeling like you aren’t sure what to change to but what you are doing isn’t it. You are struggling and trying to push through at the same time. A lot of listeners have been there and experienced at least parts of that. What ended up happening there? You lived in that state of blah almost five years.
Mike Goodman: Yeah, four and some change. Much too long. I didn’t want to feel that way anymore. I knew if I didn’t take control and make a change another year would go by and I’d still be spinning my wheels. I had been on the east coast, where I’m from. After a long time of thinking, I knew the time had come to move to the west coast. I approached my boss and told her my plans. I didn’t have an in-depth plan. It would force me to find something else and get a new start and kick things off on the right track. I told my boss. They approached me with an offer to allow me to go to the west coast but I could work remotely for a time period. I had an end date. I was surprised but appreciative and accepted. I came to the west coast and worked remote. Reality hit me. I really had to figure out what I was going to do. I applied for some jobs but didn’t find anything I was overly excited about.
Time went by quickly and my remote work came to an end. All of a sudden I was contacted by a recruiter for an opportunity in Florida. I knew the company and was intrigued. And thought I don’t have any other options. The whole process was rushed. There was no real personal connection. I would talk to a recruiter and they would set me up with a phone call with the hiring manager. I talked to three people over phone. There was no in person or skype, all phone. It was very quick. In the period of a week I had three different conversations and had an offer. The whole process was so rushed. They wanted an answer within twenty four hours. No take time to think about it and if it’s a right fit. My gut said I need time to think. I had nothing else and Florida had never been a thought or plan but maybe it’s a different way to go on an adventure. I accepted. I had about three weeks from acceptance until I had to be down there. I was in a personal hell. My anxiety was through the roof. I didn’t know if it was right. Do I want to be in Florida? What do I know about this job? Am I prepared? A lot of doubt. I had no excitement, just extreme anxiety.
Scott Barlow: Did you recognize that in the moment or just after that it was apparent?
Mike Goodman: I knew I was anxious at the moment. I wasn’t sleeping well. I thought it was nerves and when I got there it would be better. See it through and see where it goes. Allow myself to get there and absorb it and it will feel better. That is normally the case when I’ve felt uncertain about other things. Things didn’t get better for this though. I had these three interviews. Three weeks later when I went to start, of the three people, one had left the company, one was in a different role, and I was going to be working for someone that just started I had never talked to. It was like red flag #500. But I was there. Luckily I had family in the area. I had local support. I remember the first week in a training thinking the dots weren’t connecting. I said something about not understanding, it never came together. The anxiety was so much and I didn’t know what to do. I left a job I wasn’t happy with for years and now I can’t even tolerate this one. It was going from the frying pan to the fire.
Scott Barlow: It’s like your worst nightmare come true. That’s the reason you stay in those roles so long. It might not be better.
Mike Goodman: Exactly. Looking back the signs were there it wouldn’t be the good fit but the fear of not having anything caused me to jump but even after jumping I felt it wasn’t the right choice. I went and was down there and had literally zero support at the job in terms of someone to ask questions to or resources. I didn’t make it eight weeks, maybe six or seven. I decided no job is worth this. This is not a direction I want to pursue, I will cut my losses. I told my family down there that I wanted to pretend it never happened and wipe the slate clean. I showed up and turned in my computer and said today is my last day. I left and never went back.
Scott Barlow: What was that like? I think so many of us think about doing that in one way or the other.
Mike Goodman: It felt good because I made the decision in my mind and being able to go and unload my gear, my computer and their property. I turned it in and sent a letter. The person who was my boss wasn’t around so I submitted a letter and turned in my computer, stopped in the break room and grabbed a soda. This is it. I was going to have challenges ahead but knew I was making the right decision. Staying in a job that made me literally feel ill was never going to do anything right for me. I needed to figure out what was going to do something right. It was like a puzzle piece that didn’t fit.
Scott Barlow: Yeah, we’ve used the puzzle analogy a few times in our business. Certainly when it doesn’t fit in any way and you’ve tried hard to make it sometimes it’s impossible and a change is needed. Not everyone has had that experience of quitting a job without something else lined up. I’ve done it, you have, a host of other people have but that is a small portion of the world. We get this question on a regular basis. We had a listener send in a question along those lines. She said, “Happen to Your Career always seems to discourage the idea of quitting a job before accepting an offer in one that feels right. I’d love to hear an interview with someone who took an intentional break between jobs without the next thing lined up. I’m increasingly feeling the instinct to take a life sabbatical. She says I haven’t heard when it’s okay to give yourself permission to let go and when it’s okay to regroup and when it’s not okay. When does it make it a good idea? When might be the wiser choice for the long run? That is what I’d love to dig into with you. Your decision might not be right for everyone but it was right for you, right?
Mike Goodman: It’s what I needed to do. When I left the job I had been at for several years I think a lot of people can relate between a long commute and days of total non-stimulation and unengagement I wouldn’t feel energized to go home or take a weekend to figure out my next moves. It was constant blah. I’m not there, so I’ll enjoy my time and not think about anything because I don’t know and I’ll just be more upset. I got to a point where I realized I can’t keep moving forward like this. If I am going to be working until I’m 65 -70 years old. I don’t want to waste my whole life being blah. I don’t want to be counting down the weeks and months. Life was passing me by. If I didn’t take a stand and change something nothing would change. Another year would go by and I’d be in the same job, same boat, feeling the same way. What I did was jump head first into the pool. I know if I stay where I am I will still be here and nothing will change. The Florida situation was different because it never fit from the get go. I didn’t want to be there and I knew at that point that I was fortunate I had support of family and friends. I needed to take some time and decompress and figure out what would be the right fit and move. Working another thirty to forty years in a situation I’m not happy with, life is too short, and I don’t want to look back and think I had a chance to make a change and I didn’t.
Scott Barlow: I like what you said there. You are looking forward and saying I don’t want to be in a place where I had a chance to make a change but I didn’t. Making moves for avoiding regret is probably one of the times it’s okay to avoid something. This is super interesting and there are a couple areas I want to go into. One I want to leave people with ideas of when it’s okay to quit your job especially when you have nothing lined up. We will sprinkle those in. But I also think, all of us, and you and I had this conversation the other day, what we think it’s going to be like after we quit and what it is actually like are often very different. We’ve proved again and again that we as human beings are terrible at anticipating the future and what things will actually be like versus what we perceive in advance. What I’d love for you to do, and I can share some experiences, but what was it like for you? What was similar to what you expected and what was better or worse?
Mike Goodman: There were good days and bad days but luckily more good. I would take time and explore options and opportunities. I’d feel excitement and hope that made me feel better. But there were days where it felt nothing was happening, I’m not doing anything, and nothing is lined up. I felt despair and down. When I had those days I would think about specifically the Florida job and office and think this is all going to work out and I’d rather be in this spot now than back there and I’d feel better.
Scott Barlow: That is really interesting and one of the things people need to consider before making a move like this and leaving a role blah or not and understanding the full impact. What is driving this in the first place and what are some of the real impacts. In your case that Florida role was having real physical impacts on you; anxiety.
Mike Goodman: I was an absolute mess. And just knew, I didn’t leave the last role for something worse. I knew there was something better out there. If I was in that situation again where I felt rushed and I wasn’t sure it was the right move I would not do it. It was a learning experience and I think it came when I needed the lesson but I would not put myself in that situation again. No job or anything that makes you feel ill is worth it.
Scott Barlow: That is what I had for my first professional job experience straight out of college. That same feeling and the same commute multiple hours in the car looking at the people next to you that don’t look happy either. Thinking I don’t even like this job, what am I doing? I totally understand. What I think people experience, is like what you did that it’s blah and if I don’t do something I will be here a long period of time. The other side is what I experienced too was being in a situation where anything has to be better than this. A distorted grass is greener situation. Any situation will be better. It became me wanting to leave just because I wanted to get out of the situation. That is the one thing I’d tell people to consider, what is driving this decision in the first place. Are you running to something versus running away from something? If it’s just running away it will make it a bad decision. In my case I was running away. If I had left when I first wanted to I would have been 100% just running away. In your case I’d say that wasn’t true which is why I think it made it better for you.
Mike Goodman: It wasn’t a rash decision the first time. The second time, Florida I needed to leave. The first was something that had been on my mind from far before I actually did it. Sometimes I try to talk myself into staying. Say at Christmas we’d get a nice vacation and gift. The fall would come and I’d say that the Christmas vacation is nice I’m not going to leave now. It got to a point where the things I stayed for or talked myself into staying for were no longer enough. The two week vacation was great but if the other fifty weeks of the year weren’t good it didn’t make sense to stay for two weeks off. The reasons I stayed diminished. I knew it was time to go. It was past time. It wasn’t a quick decision. I thought about it a long time but then knew I was ready. I need to go.
Scott Barlow: I think that invokes the second thing we have people look at. What is going to be required to make a substantial life change? For some people they can do it overtime. I’ve done it at different times in my life. Even this business we started on the side doing it every single morning from 4am to 7am. That worked well. Then I think there are other periods of time for people that it doesn’t make sense for them. They can’t put enough focus into making the change or any other number of reasons. In your case, you’ve said multiple times, that you had to have that break.
Mike Goodman: I did. I needed that time. I was fortunate I could take it. I needed it. In all those years of commuting and being disengaged, I wasn’t spending the time during a week off to dig and search for what I wanted my life to look like. In a week I was decompressing from being out of the office and not taking on anything else. The time in between jobs gave me time to figure out what my next move would be and look like. For so long I hadn’t thought of that.
Scott Barlow: That makes a ton of sense. For you and what I know of your situation you had the runway. That is where we get into question 3. Do you have the runway in terms of financial or other to be able to make this a real possibility or will it be a case where you have to make a couple jumps like one job to another even if it’s not the perfect job or another one that can free up your time or headspace for focus? In your case you had savings right?
Mike Goodman: I did. I was fortunate I was able to take that time.
Scott Barlow: What did you do to put yourself in that place?
Mike Goodman: Over the last several years before I left the job I had annual increases. I had a promotion and every year I’d put away the difference, living off my original salary. I had put a decent amount away for a rainy day fund or living expenses for a couple months. I was fortunate during my gap where I wasn’t working, I had supportive family for a place to stay. That helps keep my savings longer.
Scott Barlow: Lower living expenses for a period of time. That is the question everyone needs to ask when leaving not to something else. Do you have that financial runway through savings or other income? Usually when I work with people one on one I ask what is the likelihood for you to be able to move into something else in addition to what it will take and always budget worst case scenario. I think people look at it being three months and I can get a job in three months and are overly optimistic. Versus it realistically could take a long time. How long did it take you?
Mike Goodman: It was over six months, maybe like eight months. It took a while. I allowed myself a little period where I took time in the beginning, the first month or two to resettle and decompress. From when I started really doing the work it was six months. Holiday times cause things to slow down and some interview processes take a while. You have to allow the time because you don’t know.
Scott Barlow: Generally we will have people budget whatever time they need away. You needed two months to decompress. That is okay. Laura is asking, if she needs the decompression that is fine, but she should allow six months minimum just in case. We have helped people make the 30 day transitions but it’s not the norm. It’s the optimistic side. It can be done but you don’t want to be in a situation where it takes longer. I’ve been in one where it took longer and it was uber stressful. Especially if you have a family, spouse. It’s stressful for them as well. That happened like eight years ago to me when I was transitioning from a job I couldn’t take anymore. I left and we had savings. I was able to get job offers. I had a number of interviews when I left. It wasn’t leaving completely clean but there was more to the story because even though we had savings, six plus months of it, and the other things were in place, in hindsight I don’t know if it was the right decision with everything else we had going on. We were trying to pay down a bunch of debt and that put it on hold. It was stressful for Alyssa because she had a bunch of people asking if Scott had a job. All of that.
Mike Goodman: It’s very stressful. Going along with it you have to be prepared and willing to give up a certain degree of control. You can control your efforts but not the outcome or how long it will take.
Scott Barlow: Exactly. You can influence it but cannot decide if the person is on vacation or you get the job offer in writing this week or three weeks from now. Those don’t always line up perfectly. If you only have three months of savings in the bank and you are dependent on it happening and your spouse is looking at you saying you promised it will be okay it won’t be a great situation for you. That brings up the fourth question you should ask. Who else has a vested interest in it? Are they okay with it and onboard and understand all the implications.
Mike Goodman: Having that support can make all the difference.
Scott Barlow: I’m going to run through those questions again for anyone in this situation. If they are wondering if they need to do it, is it something they should do, and if it’s good idea for them in their situation. Ask:
1) Do you have the runway, the savings, or more liabilities than you can afford?
2) Why do you want to leave in the first place? What is driving the decision? Is it 100% emotion thinking it will be better or something you are able to run to versus running away from? If it’s just running away probably not a great idea.
3) Who else has a vested interest and are they onboard and committed to making the same decision?
4) What do you need personally in terms of breakthroughs to make this substantial life change? It is substantial and I don’t want people to underestimate that.
Anything you would add having done it yourself?
Mike Goodman: Think it through and be prepared. Having that support is really important and look at it from different ways. Are you okay with it if it doesn’t happen for six months or takes longer? Are you still okay with making the decision? Look at the different sides and weigh the outcomes.
Scott Barlow: Excellent advice. The cool thing is even if you decide it’s not a good idea. There are alternatives. You can get a bridge job. Not the perfect job but vastly improved. Maybe it’s not blah and you are using more of your skillsets. Maybe it’s a case of freeing up more of your headspace and time to devote more to figuring out what will be a great situation.
Mike Goodman: Exactly. What does that look like? What is the next move and what will make it better.
Scott Barlow: Any advice on that figuring it out process. You’ve been through it and at some point you started working with us and that is how we met the first time. That is how I learned your strengths and what you are great at. At some point we invited you onto the team after an extensive interview process and having that first hand relationship. Now you do a phenomenal job because quite frankly we like to practice what we preach and put people where they excel.
Mike Goodman: Thank you.
Scott Barlow: We see it every day in the short time you have been with us. I’m trying to think of how many emails I’ve got from our audience saying how awesome Mike is. As people are going through that figure it out process any other advice you would give once they have decided they need to quit and are going to use part of the time to figure out what fits?
Mike Goodman: Allow yourself the time. Don’t jump into something just because it is there. Make sure it’s the right move. If you made the decision to leave where you were to find something better see it through. Don’t jump into something, a lateral move, the frying pan into the fire. Take the time and discover what will make you happy and seek it out. It is out there.
Scott Barlow: That is compelling. When you do that, and I love how you put it, if you are going to do this, actually do this.
Mike Goodman: See it through.
Scott Barlow: Not getting distracted along the way. I’m going to borrow that. If you are finding yourself in that place we can absolutely help. For those of you have gone to Happentoyourcareer.com and used our resources you may have had Mike check in with you. He is often the first point of contact that you meet and he does a phenomenal job getting people to the right places for the right help. If I haven’t told you that lately Mike kudos to you. Keep doing that.
Mike Goodman: I will I appreciate that. Thank you.
Scott Barlow: Thank you so much for taking the time and making the time and coming on the show.
Mike Goodman: Thank you for having me. A lot of fun.