523: How to Focus Your Career Search on Organizations That Fit You

Julie 00:01

That's what I've been trying to figure out for a year is like, what am I stuck on? Like, am I in the wrong role or the wrong company, or both?

Introduction 00:16

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you. Figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:41

Possibly the most difficult part of finding opportunities that fit you is locating organizations that are a perfect match for you. After all, there really isn't a list out there of companies that are small, family style organizations that happen to allow highly flexible schedules and also have larger amounts of resources and a leadership team that's helped a ton the integrity or whatever it is that you absolutely want. There's just not a list of, I mean, those organizations are out there for sure. But the question is, how do you find this unicorn organization that fits you? But it's even more complicated than that, because what's a perfect fit for one person isn't necessarily right for you.

Julie 01:23

I'll find different roles that I'll get really excited about. And then there's just always something missing, like I don't have a CPA, or I don't have whatever. So that's kind of like, if I'm finding these organizations, that I'm reaching out, and they want to know more about how to speak to that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:41

That's Julie. She's one of our clients who has been in and around the financial services industry for quite a few years. Julie has done a great job finding a few organizations that pique her interest. However, when it comes to identifying other potential organizations that could be a fit, that's the part that's been giving her trouble. Actually, just trying to decide whether to focus her efforts on roles or organizations, at all, has been a struggle. We sat down for a coaching session on how to work through these pieces. Julie was very kind and allowed me to share part of the session with all of you, too. So here she is, as I'm helping her get very clear in two areas. And number one, what specifically she needs and wants in her next role. And number two, what are the largest priorities for her.

Julie 02:32

The biggest thing is the culture, it feels very a lot like the culture from my old firm that I was with for almost 11 years. And that's been like, I miss that so much. I like that small family, people actually care about you and ask how your weekend was, or just ask about you, it's not just come in to work hands down and grind, and nobody wants to, like socialize. Just the opportunity to have ownership and be a partner, which is something that I turned down and is really important to me. And a lot of it just kind of, I guess, comes from my old role where I was involved in everything like decision making, strategic planning, project management process, improvement, employee mentorship, it was just there was a lot of team collaboration, and anyone could have an opinion and insight and maybe they didn't always take your idea or your suggestion, but at least you've like, I felt like my opinion mattered and valued and the work that I did was making the organization better and it doesn't, I don't know that it necessarily matters what that is, it's just that I've learned that I need that. Like in my role now, it's just very top down. There's not any order direction and, or input from anyone and it just gives me a lot of anxiety.

Scott Anthony Barlow 4:07

So when you say, "I need that", you're talking about the feeling like your opinion matters, and also the being able to contribute in the way of making the org better directly. Okay. Anything else that goes into that when you say "I need that" or that is really a must have moving into that next opportunity?

Julie 04:32

I think it's important that I feel, I mean, even if it's not, maybe, every single thing in the organization, that the things that affect me and my work that I'm fully integrated involved and at least have a say or like the siloed work environment that I'm in now, like, my current role, I'm a financial planner and I work with the clients but then not be involved in other parts of the clients. I want to be involved in the whole process and anything that's happening and it should, like, I want a team around the client. So if this is the team, then everybody's included on the emails, everybody knows what's going on. So that, then somebody's out and they call, you know what's going on, or you don't miss things. It just feels more efficient.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:22

All right. So here's a couple of things I heard you say, and this is where I need you to set me straight. Because it's going to help focus our efforts. It's going to, you know, the whole, actually, I totally forget the quote, it's something about, you know, you steer a boat one degree to the blah, blah, blah, and then that you end up however many miles off-course. Okay, well, that's why I want to make sure that we are right on here a little bit, that way we get to the place where you want to go. So one of the things that I'm seeing and hearing is that you've really focused on some of this financial aspect in terms of the types of organizations that you have sought out. And I've seen a lot of that. And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. So my question doesn't come from you're doing it right or wrong perspective. The only right answer is what is true for you. That said, I want to understand a little bit about why you've chosen to focus your efforts around those areas, as opposed to any other areas?

Julie 06:20

I have always had a really strong interest in finance and accounting related topics. And I really do enjoy the industry. But like I left my own organization, working with nonprofit organizations, more institutional type clients, and turned down a partner to follow a passion to work with, like, personal finance and individuals. And I do enjoy that a lot. It's not been as great as I thought, but I think it's more of the organization than the career path. But then there's always this doubt in the back of my head, because this has been so bad. And I'm like, maybe it's both. So I don't fully know. But I know that I love helping people. And I love finance. So whether that's, as a wealth advisor, or some other type of financial organization helping people, I just know that those two things are important. If that helps.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:24

Okay, I have a couple thoughts for you. And this is the part where you've got to set me straight here.

Julie 07:29

Okay.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:30

So I'm going to share with you what I think I've read and what I've heard, and then you can say, "No, Scott, that's not right", or "Here's what I meant by that", or anything else. What I believe I'm hearing, and when I also believe that I'm reading and what you sent over to me are, almost everything that you have put down is controlled by the organization, or by the environment in the organization. When you say things like, a small and family-type culture, and they act more like a family, and they're going and getting DoorDash. And like that doesn't have anything to do with the type of work that you're doing, whatsoever. And I keep hearing that over and over again. And as I look at your ideal career profile, I see things like the amount of income that you want to make is probably going to be dictated a whole lot by the organization and the profitability of that organization, maybe a little bit of the level of role, we'll call it, the flexibility you have, I know that you want to spend more time than you are, being able to visit friends and family and places. And that's going to be an organizational cultural type thing in terms of acceptance versus not, the family social aspect, the growth, the types of growth that you're looking for, are very likely going to be associated with the type of organization and the people within that organization too. Even you've mentioned several times to me over the course, just like interactions, about feeling like you fit into the multipotentialite category where you have lots of interests, not necessarily one particular interest, right. And that is often, not always, but often going to be less role driven, and more organizational driven. It's not that it can't be role driven, and it's not that that's impossible. But if you had to start someplace, it sounds like there's probably a lot of types of things that you could do as it relates to roles. But that is actually less important for you than the organization. Okay, so that's what I believe I'm hearing and here's where you got to say "No, Scott, that's totally wrong. Actually this..." Or feel to say, "Yeah, that's right on". Or we can sort through it together.

Julie 09:58

Actually I think that's really helpful. Because that's what I've been trying to figure out for a year is like, "What am I stuck on?", because for a year I've been struggling with "Am I in the wrong role or the wrong company, or both?" And, you know, I've gone through all this stuff and even worked for a different career coach before Happen To Your Career. And it was just kind of the same conversation of like, you've got to pick and I'm like, "I can't."

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:30

"Don't make me pick"

Julie 10:31

This and this and this and this. I want it all, like, mish-mash together. And so I think that makes sense that it really is more about, because I would be happy in any of these roles that I have on my... that I mentioned.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:48

Well, as long as some of these other pieces that you have mentioned are really important to you. That's, I believe, what I'm hearing. I'm literally putting words in your mouth. So please.

Julie 11:01

I needed that. Those are the words I've been trying to find for years. So appreciate it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:09

Oh, absolutely. My pleasure. And if that is the case, then I think that my advice is going to be retargeting how you're looking for organizations. Not completely, but partially. And what I mean by that is, I think that is probably going to be more helpful for us to target our search around things like size, culture, maybe even certain industries, I think those are going to be far more important than just focusing on a more narrow scope in terms of like, what kinds of roles can that organization offer. And I think you've been doing both. So that's good. We're just going to temporarily eliminate one of those paths. That will help you focus, and that will help you find more of what you're looking for. Because the name of the game here is how much can we eliminate and move off the table so that we can draw our attention to what is actually leftover? That could be great for you. Because it's just, for someone like you, I would imagine, who can do anything, and you have done lots of many things, then that makes these types of decisions even more complex. Because it's like you said "I don't want to pick. I don't want to give it up." Is that a fair assessment?

Julie 12:32

Yeah, that's fair.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:33

What I think that means as it relates to organizations, is that we need to get even more specific on what creates the right organization before we can really get into the nitty gritty of search. Because what I could do with you is we could, like, jump right over to the internet, I could screenshare and we could start searching for organizations. However, I think a lot of things are going to sound really, really good right now. What we are left with is still almost too large to really begin a fruitful search. It doesn't mean you can't find anything, it means you'll find way too much. And that's one way to start. I mean, we have no other alternative, we can absolutely start there. But what I would probably suggest first that'll help us get into that nitty gritty a little bit easier, is seeing if we can get down to what is most important first. And when I say what was most important first, I mean, which of these elements that are important to you, like being able to have a higher degree of flexibility, or having this small family type feel, or something else that we haven't even defined yet that you need and want in the organization and the culture. What are the pieces that float up near the top? Or if you didn't have them, then it would be a showstopper. Does that make sense? Does anything flow to mind initially as to what are some of the pieces that might be more important versus the others? And if not, I can ask you questions so we can sift through it together.

Julie 14:07

I mean, I think the kind of harmonious team based collaborative environment is probably the most important. I may forget something I feel like that's pretty high up there.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:22

Do you mind if I share the copy of the ideal career profile that you sent me?

Julie 14:27

No, I don't mind.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:28

We'll pull it up on the screen. So we can look at it here at the same time. So what I'm going to do is just as you're talking, I'm either going to type or I'm going to highlight. So that harmonious environment. So tell me about that. You've used the word collaborative a lot just in this conversation. And I've seen it pop up inside of our community once or twice. I don't remember where or what context but I've seen that with you a variety of times. So I'm guessing there's some measure of that being pretty important. So tell me more about the harmonious, the collaboration type piece, what that looks like and why you think that is near the top.

Julie 15:04

Because I love people.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:07

Great place to start.

Julie 15:08

I need people. I need a lot of people interaction. And I don't know, I guess I'm an extrovert, so like, brainstorming, and that is just, I get energy from that, like, I don't know how to not take a genuine interest in people or especially like, if you spend most of your time at work, so I want to like the people that I work with. I mean, sure there might seems to always be like one bad egg, but the bad egg needs at least be like tolerable. Like, everybody wants everyone to do well, I don't like a competitive work environment where it's like, I want to be successful. I want everyone else around me to be successful. So I feel like I have a lot of competition in the current environment.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:04

Okay, so for you, part of that is about being in an environment where, these are not your words but my words, you said, "I want to be successful and let everybody else be successful too." But it jumps into my mind as being able to, you know, everyone brings everyone else up, for lack of a better phrase.

Julie 16:25

Yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:26

Okay. So why do you consider that to be near the top versus any of these other things that you have listed on here? Because you've got lots of great pieces on here.

Julie 16:36

Yeah. I mean, honesty and integrity is pretty important enough that the top two, but in a way, this go kind of hand in hand, because if you're not being honest, and then it's not a harmonious environment, at least in my mind.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:52

So that's part of what that harmonious environment means to you, then.

Julie 16:56

Yeah, it was part of it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:58

I'm going to actually take this, and you have it under ideals, which would be beyond the Must-Have. And I'm actually going to take this piece here and say this must happen. So these are actually, at least this element is your minimum, like, if you move into another role, and you don't have these pieces, you're gonna go right back to feeling like you are right now. So I think that is the line, if that makes sense. And when I say the line I'm talking about everything above the line is stuff you must have, or I should say the line is exactly what you must have, everything beyond that is ideals. And then everything below the line are things that you cannot accept, they're below the minimum. I think these pieces really are for you, the minimums. What feels true for that, what feels not true for that for you?

Julie 17:55

Yeah, I guess other minimums would be a certain aspect of the financial and benefits and kind of like, PTO that I have and I'm accustomed to.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:07

Okay. So some of these pieces could also be minimums down here, too.

Julie 18:11

Yeah. I wouldn't say necessarily all, but certainly some of them.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:15

Okay. So then, what would... if we were to get sort of wildly crazy here for just a minute, what would this piece look like to the extreme? What would this piece look like to ideals? Like if you could sort of wave your magic wand for a second and say, "You know what, there's not even that one bad egg there or whatever." Then what would that look like for you? Let's just move down that path for just a second. Because that's going to help us understand where to target our efforts to.

Julie 18:47

Like, what would a harmonious collaborative environment look like?

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:51

Yeah.

Julie 18:52

It would be, like, warm and welcoming, how was your weekend and that if you have any plans, kind of, caring about each other. Maybe on occasion, people going to lunch together or doing things outside of work together. But that's not a must.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:11

Okay

Julie 19:12

I mean, it would be nice to have co-workers that you want to go to lunch with or do things here and there, but it's not like everybody doesn't want to get together after hours.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:21

That's a good example of an ideal. Anytime you hear yourself say, "It's not a must. But it would be nice too", that's your ideal category. That's your alarm bell going off that "Oh, hey, that is something that is not one of these minimums necessarily. It's not below the line, but it is something that I would really like to have and really would love to see in the next opportunities and beyond."

Julie 19:48

I guess, like just an open communication. You know, everybody kind of is on the same page like where are we trying to go with the organization, what's going on, there's not a lot of ambiguity about anything, you know, I mean, just clear communication.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:08

Okay, I'm gonna substitute in a few things that are must haves in order to create that, that everyone on the same page or having that open communication, likely, those are going to be organizations that to some degree are a bit vision driven. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are like the whole organization is establishing water sources in Africa or anything along those lines. However, it does mean that for everybody to be on the same page, then there has to be great top down communication, as well as bottom up communication. So that typically is going to be having everybody on the same page with things like vision or mission or other pieces of that as well. So the reason I'm pointing that out is that it can give you clues as to where to start looking as well. A couple of the things that I'm hearing, and I'm just going to write these down for you, so you're going to have some places to start. So when you think about searching for organizations, here's some of the things that can be great for you to start with. "We probably are looking for a small," I'm just gonna capture it right here on this piece. And then I can send you this link to this version of it so that you have all this information too. So "We're probably looking for small to medium sized organizations, or sub organizations of larger organizations." The reason that I would suggest waiting on that is I think you're probably going to find more fruit, you're going to bear more fruit, if you actually start with the small to medium sized organizations, those have a higher chance in most cases of feeling more like that family, because they often have a little bit more stability in some ways, not always, you're looking for the ones that do, have a little bit more stability in terms of people, which means people get to build deeper relationships, they often are working together in different capacities, or they are responsible for doing more or so they have to rely on each other more as well. So there's a whole series of reasons, I won't go into all of them for you. But that is a great place to start. Aside from that, we're probably looking at those vision driven organizations, or organizations that have a clear cause. So in the financial industry, there are still plenty of organizations that have a clear cause, necessarily, it shows up differently in that type of organization, sometimes, than it does in a Tom shoes type organization. However, you can see a pretty distinct difference when you talk to people in an organization like, let's see, like SoFi financial versus a, why can I think of one of the smaller ones, that is just escaping me right now, I just had an interaction with him the other day. And you talk to some of the team members in those organizations as two completely different fields, depending on, are they rallied around the same type of cause? Is the communication great around that cause? Can they prioritize within their organization? Have they grown really, really, really, really quickly? That's another thing you're probably not looking for, you're probably looking for more steady growth, as opposed to growing so fast, that they are losing bits of these pieces that you're talking about here. So I'll write that down, too steady growth as opposed to massive growth. So organizations that have grown specifically because they've had venture capital dumped into them, I want you to avoid like the plague, you're a lot less likely to get that what you want out of it in those types of organizations. Where organizations that may have been around for five or seven or ten plus years, that are still relatively medium sized to small, but have experienced steady growth are going to be another indicator to you as well. So what I'm trying to do for you is get you a little bit of a checklist in terms of different ways to look at this so that we can translate some of what you want into where you can begin to look for it. Some of the other things that pop up too, are going to be the flexibility side. Help me understand what you want about that. Is that primarily just having flexibility for time off or is that having flexibility for how you're doing the work? Help me understand what that means.

Julie 24:56

I guess it's kind of a few things. It's like, if flexibility that if I need to, I don't know, I'm not necessarily looking to like work from home all the time, but if you know, somebody's come into the house, or I have an appointment on this opposite side of town, close to home, but nowhere near the office, you know, to be able to work from home for a little bit and then go a little away, just that kind of, or there's a doctor's appointment or time off.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:24

Okay, okay.

Julie 25:25

So like, I like to be able to decide what time I eat my lunch.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:30

All right.

Julie 25:31

Which I never thought be something that I had to even think of. But that's like a scheduled time where I work now. I hate it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:46

Okay, let's bring it back around. Because there's really three parts here, there's figuring out your must haves and getting incredibly specific. And then after you do that, you'll have initial clues as to where you can begin looking for targets or organizations. Once you identify and narrow down your list of organizations from your research, now, it's time to reach out and begin getting to know the people in those organizations. This is one type of approach that we use with many of our clients and students so that you can really understand, "Could this organization be right for you?" So I'm oversimplifying a bit here. But I want to show you how this works. I talked through this process with Julie, here's me explaining to her and interacting with her during the session exactly who she could reach out to for best results, and how this could actually work, even some verbiage that she can use.

Julie 26:41

And that's really helpful. I guess, what's, maybe, not clear it's shifting years is more on like, I don't have a good understanding exactly, actually discovered on the role being as important. I mean, it's important and that it has certain things, but outside of that it's not important, but I'll find different roles that I'll get really excited about. And then there's just always something missing, like I don't have a CPA or I don't have whatever. So that's kind of like if I find these organizations that I'm reaching out to and they want to know more about me or how to speak to that, that aspect of them not as, like I'm clear but I'm not clear. If that makes sense.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:28

Yes, yeah. And that's a common place where people get tripped up too, or I should say that, it's common to be worried about that. Because a lot of times we feel a pressure to say we are interested in a particular role or to provide that as a place to start, here's the way that I would handle it. And the way that I have handled it in the past, and we've had a lot of other people be successful within CCB too. Since we're focusing on organizations first, what that might sound like if you were to take the next step of reaching out to people, then instead of saying, "Hey, you know, I'm really interested in blah, blah, blah, type role", it can be completely driven from that, "You know, I found your organization as I was looking on EDC and just be very transparent with that. I'm gonna make a true career change in the near future. And I'm trying to do some research to find out what organizations could be right for me, and I really wanted to learn more about yours." And some of the things that stood out to me were a, b, and c, the fact that it appears you have an environment with a highly supportive and collaborative, almost family like setting, and I'm trying to understand more about what you do. Would you be willing to chat with me a little bit to sort of learn more about your organization and what you love about it and what you don't love about it?" And that's it. That type of conversation. That is very, very simple. Now, I think something that is very useful, as it relates to approach an organization first is, you probably want to go higher up in terms of roles. When you're reaching out to people, you're probably not reaching out to somebody in a mid level role, you're probably reaching out to upper-end type roles, upper-end typically leadership in the organization. Two reasons for that. Reason number one, actually, there's way more than two, but I'm only going to share two with you. The reason number one is that is going to give you better information about what the organization actually values and what the leadership is like, because that's part of what you're going to need to know to make good decisions for yourself. Secondarily, if you decide that "Hey, this is possibly an amazing fit, or at least I want to know more. I want to dive in deeper into this particular organization and learn what else I can." Then it becomes much easier or to do so. Because after you've already had a conversation and started to build a relationship with that person who's in leadership in that organization, if you ask something like, "Hey, you know, who else would you suggest that I talk to in your organization to learn more?" If that person makes a recommendation and introduces you to somebody else in the organization, and they happen to be on a lower level in terms of scope of the organization, then even if it's a request, it may not be looked at as much as the request and it's more likely to happen. So thinking a couple of steps ahead. If your boss's boss's boss says that "Hey, Julie is amazing. And I would love for you to talk to Julie. Could you spend a few minutes with her? And she has some questions about the organization." Then a lot of times people are more willing to do so if it comes from your boss's boss's boss, or whatever. So many more reasons why to do it that way. However, that's just a couple of suggestions for places to start. Does that help at all? In terms of how functionally to make that work?

Julie 31:03

Just keep it all organization. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It's just, I've gone on like informational coffees and different things, which is how I've found the opportunity that hopefully plays out. And just I'm really used to getting the like, "Well, what do you do, or what do you like to do or want to do." And so that's where I just have a talk about that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:28

I think one of the things that would be very helpful for you, if you haven't already, getting into some of the interview prep module for being able to share stories, particularly about some of the results that you've been able to get that you would like to delve more into, in terms of types of work too, but I think you can still be very transparent, and also specific without pinning yourself down to a role. It's more difficult, I promise. And that's not how people are used to having it delivered, people are used to being able to put you in a box. But you're multipotentialite anyway, like you don't fit in a box. So don't accidentally put yourself in a box that's not serving you well, and it's certainly not serving your future organization well, either. If they've already put you into a box, and that's how they're thinking about you. So instead, your communication with them is going to be much more about, you know, "One of the things that I have been able to do and in past roles that I loved is being able to step in where I have influence over a variety of portions of the organization. For example, one of the things that I did in a past organization was A, B, and C. And I absolutely love that because it allowed me to collaborate with five different people on three different teams. And it allowed me to get my hands into the P&L portion plus also the customer service portion plus also, and I love being able to move amongst all of those different pieces, because it allows me to learn and grow pretty rapidly. And I find that I'm able to do that in ways that just other people can't. So I want more of that." So it's gonna require more explanations, being able to almost show them what you've done in the past and how it's gotten results for past organizations, and then you've been able to say "I want more of that type of thing." And then you can even be transparent with them. The problem is, like, there's often not a role that fits that. So that's part of the reason why I'm taking a different approach. I want to find the organization or organizations that really are an amazing fit, and build a relationship with them. And that's why I'm here asking you questions. So I appreciate it.

Julie 33:39

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:42

It also takes the pressure off you to have to say the perfect thing too. It allows you to just be much more transparent. And I think I find that for the right organization, they're going to appreciate that anyway.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:01

If you enjoy this story, this episode, then you can learn more like the one you just heard today in our brand new audiobook– Happen To Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work. It's available on audiobooks now. The paper copy of the book has been out for a while. But if you're listening to this, and you enjoy this podcast, I know you're gonna love the book. You can visit happentoyourcareer.com/audible in order to get the book right now and start listening right away. All right, we'll see you next time. Here's what's coming up next week.

Speaker 3 34:34

I got to the point of just, like, I was having thoughts of, like, I was driving home one day, I was like, "Man, I would rather die than go in tomorrow."

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:44

If you've listened to this podcast or read the Happen To Your Career book, then you know the reason behind why I do what I do. The reason why I started HTYC and the reason why I started this podcast is because I was once where many of the people who you've heard on the show come to find themselves negatively affected by work with no idea how to escape. My commute was three hours a day, my work schedule was 70 to 80, sometimes 90 hours per week. I didn't really have weekends, I didn't really have time off. I didn't really get to see my wife. It was, shall we say, not great. Well, okay, fast forward past the point in time where I began self medicating with food, gained a ton of weight, and seriously considered jumping out a window. Then I realized that work can be unhealthy for so many of us. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to be. If you're stuck in a job that is making you miserable or negatively affecting the rest of your life, you don't have to let it control you. You can make the decision right now to start taking steps to a work that fulfills you and allows you to be more happy more often.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:57

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.