714: From Law Enforcement to Tech Sales Engineer: How A Mid-Career Change Translated 24 Years Behind the Badge into a $35K Pay Increase

[00:00:00] Tavis: I am at wit's end and wanting to hit, like, the eject button, but I don't have a plan.

[00:00:04] Scott Anthony Barlow: That's Tavis. And for 24 years he was in law enforcement, most recently a captain overseeing five units. From the outside, his career looked like a textbook success story, but from the inside, something had been wrong for a pretty long time.

[00:00:17] Tavis: The internal conflict just started to wear me down.

[00:00:21] Scott Anthony Barlow: The leadership above him had changed. His values no longer aligned with the culture, and the concerns he kept raising weren't getting heard. Eventually, he hit a breaking point. How do you walk away from something you've spent your entire adult life building and get the rest of the world to value what you've invested 24 years getting good at?

[00:00:39] This is Happen To Your Career. Most people let their career happen to them, falling into jobs by accident, staying longer than they should, and wondering if this is really all there is. But a few people decide to stop settling and do something different. This podcast is for you to take control, get intentional, and design your work to fit the life that you want to build. Real stories and real research so that you can stop waiting and start making it happen. I'm Scott Anthony Barlow.

[00:01:04] To kick off our conversation here, take me back to before any of this started. If someone had looked at your career from the outside, what's the version that they would have seen? Because you were a captain, you were, what, 24 years in, you're running five units. What would they see?

[00:01:24] Tavis: Looking at those that I worked with and those that I helped mentor or oversee and being a career coach, not in the same regard as you or your team, but in the sense of, you know, always wanting to build them up.

[00:01:38] I've definitely been known... I'm told I'm honest to a fault, so definitely someone with high integrity and high values in the police department, which as we probably will get into later, probably can be a blessing and a curse.

[00:01:49]

[00:01:49] Scott Anthony Barlow: So let's just acknowledge that this was a really wonderful section of your career for a long period of time, right? And then at some point it changed. Your...

[00:02:01] Tavis: Yes. Yeah ...

[00:02:01] Scott Anthony Barlow: Tell me about that look that you're making right now.

[00:02:03] Tavis: I have different segments of my career, holistically, that I think really were, like, moving for me. Obviously, like, most people get into public safety, those first couple years are just crazy, right?

[00:02:14] They're... Some of the most fun you'll have. Everything's new, everything's really scary in the sense of, like, am I gonna know how to respond to this call? Am I gonna be able to investigate this? 'Cause just there's so much to learn. I mean, we often say that it takes an officer a good five years to really feel comfortable in what they're doing. And you'll still have questions, but you're not, like, blowing up your sector partner or your supervisor every minute with a question about this or that.

[00:02:37] Scott Anthony Barlow: Sure.

[00:02:37] Tavis: So those couple years were great. You know, I was a really proactive officer, loved getting into a lot of things, and then I transitioned into investigations. I would say that was probably one of the highest moments of my life because the investigative work I got into was something that was a goal of mine.

[00:02:53] When I started with the police department, I worked hard. I achieved it, stayed in it for approximately six years. But then I had started to feel a little burnout and I have, like, a five-year shelf life, it seems like. At that five years, by and large, like, I need a new challenge. It doesn't mean I need a new agency or an organization to work for, I just need a new challenge.

[00:03:14] And by this point I'm, you know, 12, 13 years in my career and I started feeling like I'm in a really good place that maybe I can start mentoring and teaching others and get into supervision. And so that kind of took its way. And I would say that most, like, police officers will probably be able to relate to this if any of them listen to your podcast, but first line supervision is where it's at.

[00:03:34] That's where the most excitement is. That's where you have the most impact as far as I think the things that spoke to me as far as that mentoring. The higher you go, the more removed you get from the work, and that started to maybe over time, nothing that I realized right away, start chiseling away at some of the drive to keep moving forward in that career.

[00:03:54] Scott Anthony Barlow: At what point did you start to realize that?

[00:03:57] Tavis: Probably about three to four years ago was when I started to maybe get hints of it. I think it became exacerbated based off of a time where I was having some personal conflicts or challenges with the leadership above me, their values did not align with my values,

[00:04:16] Scott Anthony Barlow: Which values?

[00:04:17] Tavis: Integrity, honesty, which, you know, kind of go hand in hand. Not caring for people a lot of lip service, but when you started looking at how people were being treated within the organization, targeting, individuals, it was a rough patch.

[00:04:30] And, you know, it wasn't just for me, it was for, you know, a number of other individuals that were in that agency. We lost a lot of really great men and women, of all ranks. It was a tough time. And for me, that's where it really started to exasperate some of the symptoms.

[00:04:42] You know, I would come home at night, mentally exhausted and drained from dealing with not the outside problems, not the problems that the public, you know, were bringing to our attention or, you know, some of the publicly elected figures. Sometimes that can be hard, but it was the internal conflict and dealing with that on a daily basis.

[00:05:02] It just started to wear me down. By year four, I am at wit's end and wanting to hit, like, the eject button, but I don't have a plan of what it is I'm supposed to be doing, which is a really scary thing.

[00:05:13] Scott Anthony Barlow: Let me ask you about that. Was it always the case where you were going to transition out at that 25-year mark?

[00:05:22] So I'm in that weird position in the state where I was, in public safety, we have a system that you can retire with, what they call full pension without any reduced, you know, benefits. You give 25 years, and you have to be 50 years old where you can start drawing your pension from day one.

[00:05:38] Tavis: At 25 years, I'm 48 years old, so I can stick around if things are good and I'm still trying to figure things out, or I could leave.

[00:05:46] Scott Anthony Barlow: If I remember correctly, since you and I got to chat before we got to sit alongside you and, and help work on this transition, and I remember you saying, "I'm really trying to figure out if I stay until this time period, you know, 25 years or longer because of this pension."

[00:06:05] And I think that there's a version of this story where you could absolutely have kept your head down, stayed until you hit that full pension, maybe you make another lateral transition. But what was going on in your head as you were continuing on through this? What were you telling yourself to stay at that point in time, and then at what point did you stop believing?

[00:06:27] When these thoughts like first started coming about, you know, where I was probably at like 23-year mark or, you know, give or take, somewhere in there, and just loosely kind of entertained it.

[00:06:36] Tavis: It's like, gosh, I'm just a couple more years to the finish line, might as well just go ahead and see it out. And when you looked at just how much you lose in your pension, when you're two years out, it's a pretty good chunk, As things got worse, it started to become more of a real conversation with my wife. Like, I feel as if this pension thing is just this kind of noose around my neck in the sense of like it's keeping me here, but at the same time it's gonna be the thing that kills me.

[00:07:01] I've been a couple months now into my new career, and she just said, "You seem a lot lighter. You don't seem to have, like, the same weight that you were bringing in the house or carrying with yourself." And I've heard that from a couple different people that have known me for a really long time. Like, "Oh, I see your old self coming back again."

[00:07:15] I mean, I could feel it. I could feel internally how things were impacting me from work, but I never really thought my personality or who I was changed. Maybe I didn't go out and do as many social things or whatever 'cause I'm just drained. But I never thought I was changed as a person, at least around, people that I've known forever. But apparently I did 'cause they see a big difference in where I was versus where I am now.

[00:07:37] Scott Anthony Barlow: How does it feel now knowing that you spent so much time deliberating on, should I stay or stick it out? Just knowing what's possible now in this new situation with the new feelings and, you know, the impact on your family and friends. Like, what does that feel like now?

[00:07:55] Tavis: I waited too long. But God's time is perfect in everything too. I'm a believer in that. I can probably see just the way that everything aligned from working with your team, the opportunity that came along, et cetera, like, and some doors being closed in between all that.

[00:08:08] But my goodness, if God would give me an opportunity to do it at any time then and it was my timeline, knowing what I know now, dude, I would've jumped out well before, I mean, the moment that I, you know, was starting to really consider it. To heck with, you know, whatever loss in pension that I would've received 'cause it... money is not worth the aggravation and going through some of the things that I experienced. It just wasn't worth it.

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[00:08:31] Scott Anthony Barlow: When you made this decision, "Look, I'm going to make this type of change in my life," and you first started doing the actual work of figuring out what you wanted, you know, what did that actually look like for you day-to-day? Let's first focus on the strengths work that you were doing.

[00:08:48] Tavis: So, it was funny 'cause when I first started, I remember, you know, the, "Look, like we're gonna go through this process." It's a structured process, maybe could go eight months, seven, eight months.

[00:08:58] Like I was in a very kind of deep dive in depth. And even after knowing that and just like being told and reminded, like, "Really stick to the plan." "It's gonna work, but you have to like stick to the plan." I'm a little bullheaded. I definitely am confident, which, you know, is weird, and I was gonna, you know, bring that up.

[00:09:15] It's like, how can I be so confident in so many things, but then also not confident with like this whole job change, right? And when you talked about the strengths and identifying your core strengths, that was a big one for me. I wouldn't say I had any, like, aha moments in the sense of, "I didn't know that about myself", but it was really a, like, just affirming to me of whatever the next job is, whatever the industry is, I need to make sure that I am paying attention, that these things will be honored and utilized often.

[00:09:43] And it was funny because not only did, like, the test and things that I went through to do my own self-assessment, the really cool thing was when you got to then send it out to all of your coworkers and your friends and your family members, you know, none of them obviously were, like, speaking with the other, like, and had the questions that were being asked, but the...

[00:10:07] Scott Anthony Barlow: Yeah, it's all independent.

[00:10:08] Tavis: Yeah. And the number of responses that come back that you would've thought they were all in the room talking about me with each other, and that made me really smile. Because the things that they saw in me were the things that I would've hoped that he would've seen in me, and the things that I was most proud of, like, in regards, like, again, the strength test and what it affirmed.

[00:10:26] Scott Anthony Barlow: Can you tell me a little bit about how you then utilized that information? Now that you have this evidence that, "Hey, these pieces are my strengths." Tell me a little bit about what you learned, what you took away from, you know, so maybe even a couple examples of those strengths.

[00:10:41] Tavis: One of the things was, like, I remember, like, achiever being in the mix, in interviewing...

[00:10:45] Scott Anthony Barlow: Not a surprise that achiever was in the mix for me personally. That was for you.

[00:10:50] Tavis: When you look... when you get this information in front of you and you look back, like a lot of things about, you know, like my work life and the things that I did, it's like, "Oh, that makes sense." But it also then spoke to me of like, you start thinking about the times when you start attaching those descriptions to previous jobs or tasks or things you've done in my case, you know, police work and by, you know, years prior, start to think about, "Oh, that was a really good time," or, "That was a really good project."

[00:11:16] And these feelings, these, kind of come to the surface where it starts to get you to think about, "Well, why was that?" I mean, like the whole idea behind that kind of strength identifiers section of the program obviously is because, you want whatever the next change to be is really you tapping into those skills 80% of the day in some way, shape, or form.

[00:11:35] Because of that, it's like, okay, well these were my highlights in this industry when I was here, knowing that I need to now bring it forward into whatever I do next. I think the biggest one that stood out to me though was belief.

[00:11:49] And I remember when I was going through my coaching being told, it doesn't show up as often as some of the others, but adds one little extra layer of complexity when it comes to the job search in that whereas for maybe some candidates, they don't necessarily have to be as concerned about the company culture or environment.

[00:12:07] I think it's important to probably most people, but, for people like myself where that actually surfaces within the five strengths, it means you have a really strong belief system, values, integrity, and you expect like others to be kind of in lockstep too.

[00:12:22] Scott Anthony Barlow: For you, when it's out of alignment. Like it hurts worse when it's out of alignment for you. It's like a double hit in many different ways because it's crushing your values and also crushing, you know, part of who you are on top of it.

[00:12:36] So I think the thing that I'd love to know is, how do you experience it differently now that you're in a situation that is far more better aligned? Let's just talk about that.

[00:12:47] Tavis: My work self is my personal self. Like, you don't get to kind of like see two sides of me. And I'm not speaking of like, you know, like political beliefs and religious beliefs. I mean, I have my own convictions and beliefs there. I'm speaking more of like the kind of broader umbrella of just like treatment of others, honesty, being able to have difficult conversations, being a decision maker, and not waffling.

[00:13:10] All of those things that to me kind of make up this like, you know, belief system. That's what I needed and those were the things that I was no longer getting in my other agency that I absolutely am getting here.

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[00:13:22] Scott Anthony Barlow: That's fascinating. So I'm actually gonna resist the urge to go down a different bunny trail there, 'cause that'll take us another hour to fully explore that. So maybe that's a different conversation for a different day, but that's so cool in many different ways. I do wanna shift gears, though, and I did wanna ask you about what was the point where you started to feel like you had a direction?

[00:13:45] Because you came into this saying things like, "I feel a little lost here." And at some point you shifted into, "Hey, I actually have direction that I can move into." When was that, and what did that shift feel like? What made it actually finally click for you?

[00:14:00] Tavis: I knew I wanted to be in tech. The thing that I realized, as well is that I didn't necessarily need to gravitate away from public safety as much as I thought. I think I just needed to see that kind of my frustration with public safety was more of kind of an isolated with the things happening in my department.

[00:14:15] But if I broke away from that, there’s a lot that I have to offer on the public safety, you know, side of things and just the knowledge base that I, you know, have accrued over these years. And being able to actually blend those two with this fascination for tech and interest in being able to do some tech things at my previous organization, but then couple it with public safety.

[00:14:34] Those transferable skills they become a little bit more, I don't know, easier to demonstrate when you can talk about the tech stuff you did, and "Oh, by the way, like, I'm in public safety, and this industry that you're really interested in going after in public safety, like, I can help you improve your foothold in that arena."

[00:14:52] I don't know if that made sense. It sounds a little, like, wordy, but maybe you get the gist of what I'm talking about.

[00:14:56] Scott Anthony Barlow: It does make sense. Similar to what we started talking about with translatable skills and, you know, moving from law enforcement to the private sector, a lot of people would assume that that's a long shot or completely impossible. With just one sentence, why is that completely wrong?

[00:15:14] Tavis: I learned that the things that I was doing operationally and then also in leadership, they're the same things that you're doing in the private industry. The only difference really, I mean, granted my, the police work and arresting people, things of that sort, okay, I'll give it to you, slightly different from other professions.

[00:15:29] But when you look at all the other administrative, which takes up probably, no matter where you are, 80% of your job in law enforcement, the only thing you gotta flip out is much like a nonprofit organization, we're the same way. Like, we're not in it for the money, so we're not in the private sector.

[00:15:43] Scott Anthony Barlow: What ended up leading you from, you know, some of that initial investigation to the point where you actually had an offer that was good alignment and you wanted to accept on top of that, you know, it ended up resulting in an increase. What were some of the key steps for you if you were to take us through what led to the next step, to the next step, and then ultimately you getting to accept an offer that was a right fit for you?

[00:16:11] Tavis: So a few things occurred, and I'll try to be concise here. So as we worked through my career profile, one of the things that Phillip realized that I could really use, was some direction on like just some structure of narrowing down the job market field and process.

[00:16:28] Scott Anthony Barlow: Yeah.

[00:16:28] Tavis: And it... I'm really thankful for that because that's what brought the company I'm working for now to light.

[00:16:34] And like I mentioned it to them in the interview process, I was not familiar with this particular company. I had a wish list of companies that [00:16:40] were out there, and this surfaced as a result of this kind of process I was going through and looking at different companies. So they grabbed my attention, and it was interesting.

[00:16:48] Well, as luck would have it, a job, for a particular position the sales engineer position I'm in, opened up, and it was probably within hours of me seeing it that it had been posted. At this point, I was probably a little premature in applying, and by that I mean we had already, worked through in knowing that, okay, we know it's gonna be public safety.

[00:17:07] We know it's gonna be in the tech industry, probably gonna be sales or customer success management 'cause those are the two areas that seemed to like meet all the different things. But I, just prior to this conversation or prior to applying for this thing, Phillip and I had a discussion about my son, and if you met him, you would see what I mean.

[00:17:26] He is so bold, not afraid of rejection. I mean, the way he puts himself out there for things and the level of success he has, like, he probably experiences rejection, but he's probably got far more wins than nos. And I remember Phillip telling me as we were kind of working through this, "Well, maybe, like, that's the mindset you need to get in as we move to this next, this phase, is just be bold like your son. If you ever get down, think about him, or if you ever kind of, like, start to get nervous about taking this leap here, think about him. What he would do." Well, that's what I did in this case. They were really impressed with my resume and cover letter. You know, at that point, had worked on highlighting how my skills transferred and the projects that I had done that spoke to this particular job so they could see some parallels.

[00:18:08] And then from there, it was several rounds of interviews, meeting with different aspect, different members of the team at each interview. The biggest thing that I remember was just showing up as myself. Doesn't mean, yeah, I didn't show up prepared. I absolutely showed up prepared.

[00:18:21] But just showed up as myself, and I kept remembering that thing that Phillip had told me way back when we were talking about, "Is that a company you would wanna work for if they didn't like this or that, like, about you and who you are?" And that was really important there, too, because, you know, the advice that he gave was, "You gotta remember, like, you're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you.

[00:18:40] So be yourself, and if they like you for who you are, then, you know, good things may happen." And in this case, it did. You know, obviously there was interview preps, and then there was conversations about salary. I remember in government work, there really isn't much room for negotiation. Rarely, I think if ever. Maybe if you're a department head you've got that kind of ability.

[00:18:56] Scott Anthony Barlow: Hey, now, I've done it myself.

[00:18:59] Tavis: Yeah. Well, I stand corrected. In my agency and in the county I work for,

[00:19:04] Scott Anthony Barlow: It's harder for sure...

[00:19:05] Tavis: Unless you get to higher levels. Yeah. We have pay sc... what do we have? Pay scales that you're kinda locked into. But I remember talking about the negotiation, and that was an uncomfortable part for me. And I remember they came back with what I consider to be a very generous initial offer. It wasn't maybe where I wanted it to be exactly, but it was close, and I was willing to, you know, probably go ahead and settle for that.

[00:19:27] But I remember having conversations, it reminded me, "This is where you want it to be," when we first started this venture, and this is, like, the strategy that we're gonna do to ask them, essentially, to get you where you wanna be. And I'm like, "I'm right at the one-yard line.

[00:19:41] Like, I don't wanna fumble this football. Like, I've gone through all this stuff. This team is great. This job is like a dream job. This company looks amazing. I don't wanna lose it over the salary." And they're just like, "You're gonna have to trust us. Like, this is how we're gonna handle it." And sure enough, you know, was able to, you know, successfully work out a renegotiation to get me where I wanted to be and do all the things that I wanted to do.

[00:20:03] So that's a quick summarization. I don't mean for it to sound easy 'cause it wasn't, but it also wasn't something that was impossible like this- like insurmountable task that could just never be completed. But it took some effort on my part and working with the team and going through some dry runs.

[00:20:18] Like I mentioned before, there were a couple interviews that I had done prematurely. They didn't work out. Glad they didn't in the end, but they... I learned from those. I learned from those rejections just as much as I learned from the success that I had with my current employer. But it was like some practice dry runs for the interview that actually was gonna count. My wife, like she's been very supportive of this. She knew at the point that it was time for me to go. But,... you know, knowing that I was leaving a little bit of my pension behind because I was leaving a little early, it gave her peace knowing that from an income perspective, it more than makes up for that and then some.

[00:20:52] I look back, my wife absolutely looks back, colleagues who knew, you know, that I worked with you all, like, look back, and it's a huge return on investment. Like, it's investing in yourself, right? And it's not because I landed a job where I'm actually making better income than I was before. That’s a huge plus, but you can't put a price on being able to change an industry altogether, be successful at it, and then to love what you're doing now. I'm not saying that I couldn't have done it on my own, but I can assure you that it would've been a lot of trial and error, a lot of maybe a couple more years before I probably even took, got the courage to step forward and that just was huge to me, and I was just really grateful.

[00:21:30] It's really a dream come true to be where I am now 'cause I just... I never saw that as a potential or a possibility.

[00:21:38] Scott Anthony Barlow: If you really enjoyed this episode and you want further examples of how people are actually making real changes, we put together a career change guide. It walks you through how real people that are similar to you have discovered their ideal career and moved to work that actually fits them, as meaningful and as well-paid.

[00:21:58] You can actually get the guide for free. Just click into the show notes and description. We have the link right in there, and you can from there go over to our website, read it on the website, or you can download the PDF. I'm Scott Anthony Barlow, and this is Happen To Your Career. Adios. I'm out.