447: How Liz Figured Out Her Career Path By Going Way Back (And Getting Uncomfortable)

HTYC Coach Liz McLean talks about how she navigated her path to career coaching

Guest

Liz McLean
Liz McLean, HTYC Coach

HTYC Coach, ACC and CCSP certified Career Coach, mom, nature lover, and true crime buff.

on this episode

When it comes to making a big career transition to work you love (and get paid well for), there’s always tiny clues over and over again. Sometimes, long before college – sometimes even childhood.

While Liz McLean experienced some success in her early careers, a bit of self-reflection opened her eyes to what she should be spending her time doing.

She learned to draw from her younger self (including her Judy Bloom home library) and past experience to find a career where she could help people through coaching.

What you’ll learn

  • The importance of beginning with yourself and doing the work
  • How to be ok with discomfort (in the short term)
  • Why it’s important to take the time to find the right next thing (not just the quickest next thing)
  • How Liz’s reflection on her childhood dream helped shape her career path

Success Stories

Introduction 00:04
This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what it does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:28
Okay, if you've listened to more than one episode of HTYC, you've probably heard a few themes pop up, over and over again and again. Themes like, "Hey, I really struggled to be able to recognize what could be potential for me in my next step of my career" or themes, like, "You know what, it was so much more challenging than I thought it would be making a big career transition where on the other side, I get paid well, and I love what I do." You know, you've heard things like that. But one thing we haven't talked about, that also shows up, is the fact that there's always trickles, there's always tiny clues over and over again, long before people get into their first job. Sometimes, long before college, sometimes even childhood. When you go way back, there's evidence that we don't realize until much much later about what we know we should be spending our time doing and that fascinates me.

Liz McLean 01:43
One of the exercises I like to think about is like, "okay, cast your mind back" so, like, maybe from the ages of between 7 and 10, right. What was your play at that point? Because I feel like it's really informative. Because 7, you know, our personalities are fairly formed or, you know, from a developmental standpoint, but, you know, before 10, you know, the hellscape, that is adolescence, right? That's it. And you start to maybe, you know, take cues for what you should be doing outside of yourself versus being as authentic.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:16
That's Liz McLean. She's fantastic. She's actually on team Happen To Your Career. She works as one of our career coaches, to help people all over the world be able to get to a career happiness. But today, she comes on and shares her story. I want you to pay attention, because she does a really phenomenal job describing those clues that, in retrospect, were already there the entire time. And now that she said many years of experience, she can pay attention to them in new and different ways, and what if she ever could before as she continues to create a really wonderful career for herself, but also now, she gets to help other people do the exact same thing.

Liz McLean 02:59
So I think about like, "Okay, what was I doing during that time?" I actually... I did a little video on this one's. I went to make a library out of my house.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:08
Really?

Liz McLean 03:09
Yeah, I did. I wanna have a neighborhood library. And so some people will be like, "Oh, yeah, you should grow up and be a librarian." I was like, "Well, no. You got to dig it the 'why' beneath it." Like I really loved read... I still, you know, to this day, love reading and ideas. I mean, my strengthsfinder's like ideations– my number one. And connecting with people through ideas and content, right. So it wasn't so much about like, "Oh, I want to have access to books or whatever." Now my collection wasn't very diverse.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:44
What was in your collection at that time?

Liz McLean 03:46
I mean, I'm like, oh, Judy Blume, we're all set. But, so I don't know that it would be pleasing across, yeah. But in terms of like, you know, the traditional like, I majored... in college, I was an Econ major, and I always love looking at the 'whys' behind this decisions, right? So it wasn't that I was, you know, when I went into it, I wasn't super into Econ, even though it's really prevalent in my family, right? It's kind of a family mixture, you know, my brother, my dad, my grandpa. I looked at it, and I was like, "Ah, I can't... I really love English, but then I'm not gonna be able to get a job." right? "I love criminal justice. But, you know, again, how am I gonna get job?" I was always, again the Econ, my mind was always keyed in on the market, like, what is going to make me marketable? What is going to open doors versus closed doors? So I chose it for that, I loved what it did for my mind, because it trained me to look at the world differently and decisions and trade offs in the face of scarcity and how people behave and make decisions given that, you know, we have finite resources, right?

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:54
Yeah, absolutely.

Liz McLean 04:55
Yeah. But then, what it also did was, again, it kind of... it helps reinforced this idea of like, "Oh, I gotta look at the market, like, what does the market want? What does the market need?" And so when I went into my early career and some of my decisions, I didn't balance it out enough with who I was, right. But I was, you know, young and dumb, and just, you know, getting into it, didn't know. So I started my job, I took a job, and I don't know... we've talked about this, I found a job posting, and they had posted the salary, they posted the compensation, I was like, "I have no idea what these people do. But I'm gonna go for this." Which is terrible to admit, right. And I literally had to... it was a sales job for a really highly technical company, like I had to study for the interview, to understood what they did, and got the job, was really fortunate. I didn't know whether or not I wanted to go into sales, but I think I knew enough to say, "Well, I've never done it. So I have to give it a try." I can't... there's sometimes, you know, at that age, there's a negative connotation when it comes to when you think of sales. So I was like, "Alright, I'll go into it" and I was really, really fortunate to work with great people and have great mentors, and just highly professional. So the amazing opportunities, it was, you know, a really large global company, now Oracle owns them. And I was given a lot of responsibility to young age. There was this new hire college program that was, you know, hiring kids in to do jobs that were traditionally, you know, 40 plus year olds, you know, men that have been, you know, and it was a predominantly at that time, a male industry. And it was... the skills that I learned were just incredible. And the opportunities and the training, it was really good. I did well, like, looking at now my success was because I really just love sitting down with people one on one, and learning about their problems and what they wanted to accomplish.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:56
Interesting. But it sounds like there's a but there or a... the other side. Tell me about the other side. Wait for it...

Liz McLean 07:05
The other side, I just think I was a bit restless. And it was funny, because I was going through one of your exercises. And I think it's key in terms of connecting with, I think we're all here to be in service of each other. That's like a big part of my, you know, philosophy, right? What that looks like for each person differs. So I wasn't close enough to the helping part of it, like I wasn't connected enough to it, like I would sell some really elaborate architecture into a university, and it would help them to map a genome or do, you know, brain research or, you know, but I was too far removed, in a way. And I, again, as I went on in my career, you know, fast forward, I started to realize, like, I truly need that one on one deeper work connection and see how I'm helping individuals and how that's playing out on that micro level.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:59
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Did you recognize or begin to recognize that at that time? Or did it just feel like, "Hey, I know something's missing here and like, clearly, this is, you know, this is not the thing. So we move on to the next." It sounds like it was much later.

Liz McLean 08:15
Yeah, I mean, I had inklings. This is the thing I kind of knew. I would try to talk myself into it. It was like, I knew I really... I knew, but I tried to unknow that I really liked helping people. And I was like, "Oh, I am helping people. Because the technology that I present, helps them to enable this and this and this." And it's like, "Okay, but I'm not connected to it." But I was like, "Oh, we'll just set that over here." I can't solve for that right now. Press on. You know what I mean.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:46
You just put that on the shelf over here. Not the shelf with the Judy Blume books, but the other shelf. And then we'll ignore that for a little while and come back.

Liz McLean 08:56
Yeah, exactly.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:57
So now many years later, you and I both know that, that connection to it that you must directly see and connect how you're helping and that makes an incredible difference in terms of quality of life, quality of work, and everything in between. So what else transpired then to cause you to learn that along the way?

Liz McLean 09:15
Yeah, I'm gonna jump around here a couple of other instances. So I have worked as a yoga instructor. Like I have my teacher and I teach, you know, that was something that I did when I was not in my career and I was home with my kids, which I loved. But it came up there. I was like, "Oh, it's me teaching a sequence to a big group of people in front of a studio." But if I were in a workshop, or if I were doing a private, you know, class, it was great because I could just, I wanted to highly tailor it. But if you're teaching to a group of people, where you teach to the middle, you can't go around each, I mean, a little bit, but it wasn't enough for me and I was like, "No, I need that connection. I need to understand, it's like, okay, what is it for you that challenging in your body?" You know, how do you feel when you wake up in the morning? What are you trying to get out of this? What injuries? I mean, of course, I knew like I always asked about injuries. Safety first. But that was another clue to me. It was like, "Oh, yeah, I know this." So I sought out opportunities to really teach one on one and really enjoyed that that was really rewarding to me. So I could give that really highly personalized service.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:29
It also makes me really curious as you're progressing through your career, because you started out an Econ major, which I love, I wasn't an Econ major, but seriously considered it for a while as I was changing majors 19 times along the way, and took quite a few econ classes, which I also loved. That said, it sounded like you feel like in some ways, you had to go into it, and then eventually found the sales type role, realize that still wasn't connecting directly with how you wanted to see and help, didn't know that at the time but you're getting these tidbits, and you're picking that up. So what happened next on your way to where you're at now?

Liz McLean 11:10
Yeah, I won't get into the bits and bytes. I had various roles within technology sales and continued on and then... but I will say, you know, and then I will draw the line in the sand of like, career before kids and career after kids, quite a mark. But I want to say that there was a period where to go with that, like showing up to the market theme. Like I said, yeah, I did well, because of the one on one interactions, I had some instances where I could... to fast forward to the career coach, where I was able to coach people on interviewing and resumes as far as for client projects, right. So I was selling services. And so I had to put contractors in front of them. And so I really enjoyed that work in helping people improve and show up and advocate for themselves more, you know, effectively.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:58
What did you enjoy about that?

Liz McLean 12:00
I enjoyed getting people to really connect with, ironically, because I wasn't always doing it with myself– connecting with the foundations of what made them great. And channeling that energy into great stories and being able to, you know, sell themselves and advocate for themselves in a very natural way. It's just the improvement, right? You know, from good to great. I had a friend of mine say to me one time, you know, "You don't like just taking people from bad to good. You like taking them from good to great." And I was like, "Yeah, I just... I do." And that was where the energy, it's like that that clue, these clues of like, where do you get your energy from? So that aspect of that role, I could see it there. But I wasn't ready to, you know, I knew about career coaching. I knew about career counseling, I knew, you know, but you get these, you know, limiting beliefs that we all have, and I grew up, I guess, in this environment, or this idea that it was like, "Oh, helping professions are nice, but they really... can you really get paid doing it? Can you make enough?" And so I was like, "Oh, helping professions. Like, I can help people. But will I be able to build the life I want to live helping people and purely helping professions?" Right? So that was a limiting belief I later on in life was like, "Gosh, is that even true? Like, let me look at this."

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:25
So that's so interesting. Let's talk about that for just a minute, if you don't mind, because I find that that is a very, very pervasive myth. And I have several running theories on why this is but I'm really curious about your opinion, as you've kind of moved through this reconciling with yourself, what have you found along the way that you maybe thought was true, but panned out on the other side may not be true in the way that you thought it was?

Liz McLean 13:51
Right. Well, I just looked around the market, not me again in the market.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:55
You always go back, we always look back at the market. Yeah.

Liz McLean 14:00
I do. I will get to the turning point in my career where I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna be foundationally looking at myself, like I..." and that's, you know, spoiler alert, that's next. But where I really, you know, did the inner work and said, "Then so, okay, where do I match? Let me take a more balanced approach to this." But in terms of that, you know, I saw people doing work that I thought were really valuable and very beneficial and very helpful, and they're making a limit, like, yes, like, I don't think that's true. I'm suspecting that's not true. So I started to look for examples of it, you know, I think, you know, we have our confirmation biases, right? We, as children, we get these messages, and it's... the children are great observers, but horrible interpreters. So I mean, I took that and I was like, "Okay, I can't just help people because I won't." I won't eat or something ridiculous. I'm sure it was not like my brain turned it and made it something right.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:56
Yeah, I like indoor plumbing. So therefore, I can't go and do.

Liz McLean 15:01
Right, yeah. I mean, it's so ridiculous now, when I... as I say it. So I looked it, I was like, "How is that even true?" And then the other part, this gets to the foundational work, and a shift that I have, as far as finding work is, like, I philosophically think that we really, you know, we have to begin with foundationally, who we are, and our strengths and our unique experiences, and the market needs to us to show up with those, and say, you know, this is big, elusive marke. But the world, I mean, I won't, I'm going to get super woowoo here, here's my yoga coming out. And actually, that's why we're here, like, we're put here, you know, with our unique strengths and experiences, and people need us to show up authentically with all of those things and do that work. And that's how you create the most value. And really, you know, how you get paid or, you know, making enough it's a measure of how much value you're creating. And I could see people that were really creating, you know, a lot of value to others helping, I was like, "Oh, well, I could do that." So, does that answer the question?

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:16
Yeah, it does and it's really interesting, because I think it goes hand in hand with what you said earlier, about finding that in the world, and I can't remember exactly how you put it. However, what I do know to be true, is that even if you know how you add value to the world, and even if you know the ways that you would like to help, if you're not actively pursuing that, like, nobody's going to actively pursue that for you. So if you are assuming, or getting confirmation in a very bias way, confirmation bias, and you're reaffirming your belief over and over again, that, "Hey, I just can't find this in the world" then you're basically reassuring that it's never going to happen, or there's never even a chance of it happening because for those two reasons like that reaffirm belief and then also on the other side, you're not doing it for yourself, you're not actively looking. So the only way to move forward is to assume that there could be the possibility of that, which is what I be that you did for yourself, which is pretty awesome. Because that's hard.

Liz McLean 17:21
Yeah, it is. And I realized, I was like, "Oh, I need to..." and it's, you know, I got all these learnings and other teachings and, you know, again, things along the way that we pick up where it's like, "You know, maybe this is. Oh, I gotta go over here." And you know, it just somehow all adds up to the change, right, that changing behavior. But I looked at that, and I love "Icarus Deception" by Seth Godin, and I think I was listening to that one day, and he's like, "No, I was thinking about like, oh, yeah, I really want to show up and provide value in this way." And, you know, Seth Godin was like, "No one's gonna come discover you." And so I was like, "Oh, I have to go find it. And I have to go, I actually have to show up with this now." Which is a little bit, it was a big shift. And it was, you know, off brand, I guess, you know, and that was really scary. Phillip, and I had a conversation about that, actually.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:18
Yeah. For back context, Phillip, on our team, our Director of Client Success and coach on our team. And you know, what's really interesting about what you're saying too, about showing up in that way, here's... this is a subtlety that I know that you will appreciate, but so many people seem to miss it, is that if you're showing up in a different way, you know what I'm gonna say, if you're showing up in a different way, then if you're in, say, I don't know, a job interview, or building relationship with someone that later then leads to an opportunity, if you're showing up in a different way than what you are or what you want to be, and you get literally hired or you get an opportunity for something that you don't want to be or are not, and that is such a weird thing that I don't think anybody usually looks at it from that way, though, we're usually focused on "Hey, how do I get to the thing? How do I get the job opportunity? Oh, I need to be or act like this." Instead of focusing, "Where do I want to go?" And, does that align with how I'm behaving and showing up in the world, which is uncomfortable, as you said.

Liz McLean 19:27
Right. And it's interesting, because it's like, "Oh, you know..." Well, and they're like, "Oh, but..." you know, I showed up and I said this, "And I get this opportunity over here, but I don't really want it." It's like, well, you essentially showed up and said, "This is what I want" and people believed like, "This is who I am or this is what I want..." and because, I mean, guilty, right? And people believed me. I was like, "Why wouldn't they?" So how I got over that hurdle, Scott, is that I started becoming more tapping into my curiosity and becoming a whole lot more engaged with the subject matter and the content and the work itself. And I really, I mean, I can't stress this enough with clients, right? And we've talked about this curiosity piece before. But it's, you know, I did it to get out of my own way. It was like, "What do I care about? What kinds of problems do I want to solve? What types of, you know..." And so I'll talk with clients and say, okay, you know, when they really are just lost, it's like, "What is it that, you know, has you wanting to jump off that like, bench... like, put me in coach." Like that's a clue. So what are the problems that you want to solve? And where are there people that are solving those problems? Who are the people that are solving those types of problems? Well then, you know, have conversations with them about the work itself, which I won't get on the soapbox, but it seems like... I am, I'm on the soapbox.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:53
It's too late, you're already there.

Liz McLean 20:55
Right? I'll try to make it short. But there just doesn't seem to be enough space and time anymore for people to have conversations wher, you know, you're like, I don't know, like leaning back and kind of pondering the work itself. Particularly networking conversations, and I think it's because, you know, if that's because we're all so busy. I had a conversation with someone recently, was really interested in this program that this company was, you know, offering, I'm taking to the market and I, you know, set up the call with her, we got on the phone and she was like, "Oh, do you need a job? Or do you..." like she was trying to figure it out. I was like, "No, I really just want to learn about this program." And it took a few times. And I was like, "I'm here to learn. I'm curious." And of course, I was grateful for her time. But it took a minute for her to be like, "Oh, like, you just want to talk about the thing." I was like, "Yeah, I want to talk about the thing, because this problem that you're working on interests me. How are you guys working to solve it? What are you running up against?" She's like, "Oh, okay." I kind of broke her brain for that...

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:54
I can do that now that I can... Well, that's really interesting. I mean, we teach people all the time to put things in context, so that people can shovel it into whatever little box for how they're thinking about it, because that's much of how our brains work, not little boxes, but being able to categorize something within the context in which we already know so that I can then understand how to behave in that area. And without going too, you know, too much into the psychology of that, I think that as soon as you could get her into the... here's the box that in the way that I'm thinking about this, then you can start to actually have that type of conversation. So that's super useful. So let me ask you a different question, then. Because so many people that are listening to this right now have been through some of the events in which you have already described where, you know, they started their career in one area that they thought was going to be the thing for one reason or another, again, to realize it wasn't the thing, learned a lot about themselves along the way. And now more recently, are realizing that they really want to dive down into it and do the work to understand how they can show up and how they can add value to the real world in a way that is useful for them and other people. So you know, what advice would you give to those people who are, you know, maybe a couple years back from where we're talking about right now, and are thinking and realizing, "Hey, I'd love to be able to help people in a different way." what advice?

Liz McLean 23:35
Yeah. I mean, the advice I give is really, you know, begin with yourself, right? And do the work and take the... that can be an anxiety inducing moment for people, you know, so maybe take some deep breaths, go to yoga, but... and know that it's okay, and it's a common story. Right. And it's... I think there is something developmentally it's, I don't know, do you know David Brooks, who's a journalist, and he wrote a book called "Second Mountain". And I think there's something developmentally where in beginning stages of our life or first half of our life, it's, he'll say that it's all about... it's the first mountain, right? It's all about acquiring, and it's about achieving and getting accomplishments and that hustle, and I think that's a ladder to energy. So I do think we reach a point in our lives, and it's a natural turning point where we're like, "Oh, okay, is this all there?" You know, and then you shift into deeper work and a whole lot more meaning and wanting to, like you said, show up in a different way and add value. And I think it's, I get concerned or I don't want people to think that, you know, that's a failure. That's a mistake. It seems really natural, first of all, and a gift. You know, I think it's, you know, going and doing that deeper work to say, "Okay, how..." And you don't have to... I think a lot of people have this, I'm sure you would agree, Scott, you know, this misconception that like, "Oh, I've got to overhaul everything."

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:00
Yeah, yes. Oh my goodness, yeah.

Liz McLean 25:04
And that's just not the case. It's just not the case. And so it's, you know, feeling, you know, like, okay, it's... I'm exactly where I meant to be, this is the path, it's not like, you know, everything's blown up. And it's a gift. And it's an invitation to do a lot more deeper work, you know, reflective work, introspective work, and then be able to, was it the Pablo Picasso quote, that it's... "that the meaning of life is to, you know, find your gift. And the purpose is to give it away." Well, it's like, okay, you're at that point. And to give it away, you have to really get a much deeper understanding. And by doing that work, you never lose, it's only a gain by doing that type of work, you're going to show up, you know, way better in your relationships and your work. I mean, every aspect of your life, right? To do that, and to be okay with the discomfort in the short term, and know that you have to, you're not going to have it all figured out, like, you know, just to go step by step and you're not meant to know all of the journey.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:11
Well, here's how I interpreted what you're saying. This thing, this journey that feels like it is abnormal, that where you're going through, you've used the example of, you know, the first mountain where people are going through their... and in this case, they're building their career, they're doing all the things that they want to do checking off goals, all of these things. And then, you know, we get to the top and realize that, "Wow, this isn't where I want to continue to spend my time." And to your point, that is not only actually okay, even though it doesn't feel for so many, like it's okay, it is the journey, that is normal, that is what many, many people experience in different ways, for sure, and it shows up in different ways. But that's what so many of us experience and that is normal, and nobody talks about it as normal, unfortunately. So I appreciate you trying to normalize it.

Liz McLean 27:04
Right. It seems like normal development to me. Based on what I've been through, what I've experienced, and I think that I did used to have that anxiety and get into, you know, the hamster ruminating. And a lot of times, and I'll be clients here, we're at that point where they're like, "Okay, I just... I gotta go to the job boards, I gotta get like, you know..." and it's like, "Okay, let's take a pause, and it's okay, it doesn't have to be tomorrow." And if we get into that anxious energy and drive from that place of fear, you know, it this transition of like, "Okay, this isn't it, but what is it?" It can prolong the process, and you can go out and get a job, you can go get on the job boards and find a job posting and put yourself on a roll, no problem. But maybe just let's take a pause. And maybe this is an opportunity to do things differently.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:53
Yeah, absolutely. It is just going and getting as fast as possible to the next thing, really what you want. And if not, let's figure out what it is that you actually want. And that's very much what I hear you saying, and I resonate so much with that, like, if we're gonna do all this work to get to whatever the next thing is, we'll at least make it the right next thing for you.

Liz McLean 28:16
Yeah. One client just recently was like, "Oh, like, it was amazing" you know, and she was like, "Yeah, that's a good idea." I was like, "You gotta go get a job, anyway. Here's an idea, like, maybe we can see if we can get better in alignment." She's like, "Oh, yeah, let's do that."

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:33
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm curious, I feel like so much of my life over the last 20 plus years has been with a certain type of mantra in mind. And I'm curious what you experienced too, but I've really kind of come to the realization maybe, I don't know, 25-ish years ago, maybe longer, where it's like, "Wow, everything in life is hard." Like, every everything, like everything is hard. You know, if it's gonna be hard, I might as well do the thing that I want to do or feel like I want to do in one way or another. I might go after what I really want if it's gonna be hard either way. What is your thoughts?

Liz McLean 29:12
I mean, I guess, I suppose like what is life just like nasty, brutish, and short. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. It's what kind of hard you want to sign up. I agree. And it's like, if I just go sell myself into, you know, a role that isn't fully authentically me, which I can't do anymore, right. And when my younger self, I could. Like I almost think of it as like, action figure business Liz, look here she comes. I leave these parts of me at home, right. And now I'm like, "Oh, I can't do that anymore. I don't compartmentalize the same way." But yeah, that's a different kind of hard. And I don't want to sign up for that hard anymore. And I don't have to. So I'm like, "Oh, I don't have to do that. Oh, I should probably..." I also said, like Scott, I know what you're saying. But I reached a point in my life and my career where it's like, I know what I know, with respect to that, like that I was doing that. And I can't... It's almost like the "I can't do that again." Like, there's certain truths that I have in my life now that I'm like, "I can't unknow that" when I was younger, I could set it aside, but now I'm like, I can't. I can't unknow that. And so I have to find a new way. Like, that was how I got into career coaching. Right? So I was like, "Okay, I have to find a new way because the bridge is washed out. Like I can't... that path doesn't exist anymore."

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:35
Sorry. It's no longer. It's gonna be while before they build a new bridge.

Liz McLean 30:39
Right. So like my little forge a new trail and figure it out. Like, I find that's the hard I want to do now. And I think in the past, I was more okay doing, you know, the compartmentalizing, because it seemed like the safe play, or it seemed like a greater return on my investment. But then, as you know, and listeners know, like going into a job where you're not fully, you don't quite fit, and you're not showing up entirely, authentically is exhausting, just exhausting. And so I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna go to a job that actually sustains me and feeds me" and yeah, win-win, all the things. So...

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:21
I love that. I love that for so many different reasons. And I think what stands out to me most is that doing life, doing work in a way where you are not showing up as yourself is just a... it's a different kind of exhausting and not a good exhausting, I would say. Everyone experiences it differently in the how. But I would say on the whole, the majority of people, once they, you know, once they take that here's a matrix reference, if you've seen the matrix. The blue pill or is it the red pill, I can't remember like, once you take that... I mixed up the pills. Once you take the pill, like either way, it doesn't matter which pill it is, it's like you can't unknow that, as you say.

Liz McLean 32:05
Yes. I'm like, "Oh, it's not steak. What!" Like it's moosh. Cute. Yeah. And that was another thing developmentally where I reached a point in my life where I was like, "Oh, I can't unknow these things." I think that when I was younger, like I said, when I started my career, I had hints along the way. But I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. I'm going to put that over there." I can't put it over there anymore.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:29
Now that you're, I'll say, in the place where you can't unknow so many of these things. Why do you spend your time coaching others? Why do you spend your time helping others work through these types of career challenge, to put it mildly? It'll be at best. Tell me a little bit about that.

Liz McLean 32:45
Okay, so I'm gonna get woowoo, again.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:47
Perfect.

Liz McLean 32:48
Back to my, I think everybody's got their own unique strengths and experiences. And the world needs to show up with those things. Because I think that it just works best when we all show up uniquely to service others, right. So if we're all trying to fit in a certain molds, like there are jobs that aren't getting done, and you know, you're not being satisfied. But the other thing I'd say is, you know, I mean, it's so simple to say "life is short", right? It doesn't have to be this hard. Or it doesn't have to be that type of hard. Different hard. And it's like, I believe we're here to serve purposes that were designed for. Like if we were, I don't know, crude way to put it, but like to say a machine, it's like, okay, well, you need to find your place where you can deliver the most value. And clearly this isn't it, the world needs you to show up and do your work that's unique to you. So that's part of why I do it. And then also, I just like to, I don't know if you read this in my ICP, but this idea of like, "Okay, if I'm going to try to leave the world a better place than I found it or be of service, I think there's so much to people doing meaningful, fulfilling work that is goes far beyond work. And that really impacts their relationships and the way they show up and interact with others." And I think that's a way that I can hopefully create a positive ripple effect from an Econ standpoint, we need people to show up and work in their strengths and that I want happy people or I want fulfilled people or people who have lives that meaning right, and I want that for myself. I want that for my children. I want that for others. So that's why I do this work. And I'd rather... and I get high off of other people's successes, I'm not gonna lie.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:41
We had a conversation coming into this conversation where you had just come off a few of those calls were you... and absolutely, like I will attest to it. Like you were a... your an amazing mood and it was clearly having an impact on you as much as you are getting to have an impact on other people to cause that ripple effect. So I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you sharing. And thank you very, very much.

Liz McLean 35:09
Yes, thank you, Scott. It was fun.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:11
Hey, many of the stories that you've heard on the podcast are from listeners that have decided they wanted to take action, and taking the first step of having a conversation with our team to try and figure out how we can help. And if you want to implement what you have heard, and you want to completely change your life and your career, then let's figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest, just open your phone right now and open your email app. And I'm going to give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And then when you do that, I'll introduce you to the right person on our team. And you can have a conversation with us, we'll try and understand your goals and what you want to accomplish in your career no matter where you're at. And we can figure out the very best way that we can help you and your situation. So open up right now and send me an email with 'Conversation' in the subject line; scott@happentoyourcareer.com.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:21
So it's a totally different way of living, I would say, is getting clear on what you actually want, and getting outside all the norms and socially accepted expectations and everything else and saying, "Look, if I were to spend my time in a particular way, here's what I want for myself. Here's the things that I want to actually do. Here's the things that I actually enjoy. Here's the way that I want to be able to add value to the world." And when you do that, you're very often going to come up with a gap. You're going to come up with a gap between where you are and what that looks like. All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.

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