on this episode
Transitioning careers is hard work, and there are a lot of ups and downs, but when you feel that tug like you were meant for more… you’ve got to make it happen.
Angela Barnard wasn’t always sure what her career would be, but from a young age she realized it was up to her to design her life.
Learn how Ang became the successful career coach she is today by aligning her strengths and values, getting uncomfortable, and believing in herself every step of the way.
What you’ll learn
- How to network by building trust through commonalities
- How to intentionally design your life
- The importance of being vulnerable and stepping outside of your comfort zone
- The trick to using curiosity to enhance job interviews
Success Stories
The hardest part was getting overfitting myself into a job board. Because after about a decade of following job boards and what careers were trending in on the uprise, you really get in this holding pattern of not acknowledging what you want. It was you and your podcast and your CCB program. So, more background, I went through your CCB program a year ago. But, I finished it less than a year ago. And some of the tools are you have us design this ideal career profile. And so, you make us acknowledge all of these different aspects and put it together in one sheet. And so, it really visually lays it out that you can combine them.
Allison Curbow, Career Solutions Coach, United States/Canada
Get the Full Backstory
I can honestly say that I would not be where I'm at today without the HTYC crew. All of the material, the feedback, the coaching sessions, and the podcasts, I would not be where I'm at today.
Tanya Malcolm-Revell, Director, Events and Operations, United Kingdom
Get the Full Backstory
They went from a total comp package of $165K to $359K. Wow! Wow! Wow! I’m over the moon right now and really in shock! They reiterated how I was worth every penny and said “You can find anyone with technical expertise, but someone with your disposition and DNA is hard to come by! We can’t wait for you to join the team and are so glad we could make this work for us.” I can’t thank you all enough for your coaching, encouraging support during these last few months! I’ve landed the role of my dreams along with the comp I wanted and knew that I deserved.
Jessica , Chief Learning Officer, United States/Canada
Exactly 5 weeks from when I arrived in Canada I got a full time job, negotiated a higher salary and within the next 3 days I got another offer that pays 33% more. I am happy and very thankful to you, for you gave me support when I was looking and offered great tips.
Ingrid , United States/Canada
Angela Barnard 00:01
One of my favorite things to do is to blow your mind around what you believe is possible for you, like, to make that thing that you think couldn't happen for you, happen for you.
Introduction 00:16
This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.
Scott Anthony Barlow 00:40
When you think about the most important people in your life, those people who've had the biggest impact or the most influence, you likely think about your immediate family, your spouse, your kids, closest friends, maybe your co-workers, neighbors, extended family, but you know who you leave off that list? You. Yep, I'm talking about yourself. We often fail to realize how impactful believing in ourselves really is, and how influential our inner monologue is, when we're stepping outside of our comfort zone or we're taking a huge leap.
Angela Barnard 01:14
If you're not feeling uncomfortable, I would say you're not playing big enough in life. I always feel uncomfortable. So first off, I want you to acknowledge that that is normal. And that means you're going after something that you care about. So that's a good sign.
Scott Anthony Barlow 01:29
That's Angela Barnard, better known as "Ang" and she's awesome. She's also a career coach. She has many of the career coaching certification designations MPA, CPC, ELI-MP. And she's also on the HTYC team, as it turns out. For the past 10 years, Angela's coached people all over the world on how to live more intentionally and find their own version of career happiness. Today, she's coming to talk with me on how she found career happiness by identifying the themes in her life that helped her find success, create success and more importantly, fulfillment and enjoyment and how she's able to help other people find those themes in their lives.
Angela Barnard 02:10
So I'm Angela Barnard, and what I do is I help people, I like to say, intentionally designed to, like, get clear on their values, their strengths, and then live in alignment with that, so they can love the work that they do every day.
Scott Anthony Barlow 02:23
So just to kick us off here, tell me a little bit about where your career began. Where did all this start? Let's go back for a minute here.
Angela Barnard 02:33
Oh, okay. So we're gonna go way back, we're gonna go back to when I was in college, this is where I felt like I really started getting super interested in strengths and helping people really design their life very intentionally. So it started with, I was in college, broke, needing money. And I went to this career fair. And there was this tatted guy, so he had like tattoos all down his arms. And he was standing there, you know, offering these rules of where you could work in mental health. And I was kind of curious about it. So came over and talked to him. And he's like, "Yeah, so basically, what you're going to do is you're going to help people that have different disabilities, you're going to be in their home setting, and then helping them like reach their own personal goals." I was like, "Oh, this sounds really cool." And he's like, "Yeah, you want it? You want the job?" And I'm like, "Sure." right. So he gives me this job. And I remember, Scott, before I walked away, this other girl walked over, and she said, "Oh, she's gonna work with us?" He's like, "Yeah, we're going to interview her later. But yeah, I told her, she could have the job." And she's like, "Oh, and what home?" And he's like, "Oh, you know, the one on all the Nash." And I was like... and she's like, "Really? Her?" And I remember thinking, like, "why are you so like hesitant about this?" So fast forward, I get this job, right, I go in, and it's an environment where people that live there, they have developmental disabilities, but it's high behavioral situation. So these guys can, you know, get very angry, throw things, all the things. And I'm pretty small. So I'm coming into this environment, and that's why she was kind of concerned, like, "Whoa, you're bringing her in here." Because usually it's men that are in this kind of environment. It really challenged me because obviously, I was uncomfortable. But it was also so fun. Because I got to work with a really cool team. I got to learn a lot more about, like, mental health in general. So that's where it started. Then from there, I got my next big...
Scott Anthony Barlow 04:30
Hold on. I want to go back there just a second here. Because here's what I heard, so upon your entry, first of all, a few things that arguably are normal or maybe not very normal, I'm not sure necessarily. But thing number one, I heard like you walked into this career fair, and you had a job essentially before you left where they've been just said, "Hey, you can have the job." Secondly, you overheard that conversation where a whole ton of assumptions were made, for lack of a better phrase. And I'm really curious about that. Because clearly those assumptions were wrong. Like, you know, fast forward, clearly those assumptions were wrong. But I'm curious what did you feel at the time before you went into that, you know, you're there, you're 18 years old, you're listening to this conversation, overhearing it, clearly the conversations not meant for you in the first place, also, a whole bunch of assumptions that, "hey, you're like... we got some serious concerns about whether or not she's going to be successful" for, what I would say, our reasons that arguably, maybe don't matter as much. So take me back for just a moment and what was going on at that point in time?
Angela Barnard 05:46
Okay, so this is a common theme that I've seen throughout my life. So the hesitancy there, I think it was about when I was, you know, I look younger. So coming into these roles, I was young at that time. But there's always been that question about, "Could I follow through? Or am I authoritative enough?" And that has happened through other roles as well, like, training environments, things like that. And I've proved that a lot of people wrong in those situations. So I think there's that and my feeling at the moment was my own stuff showed up around like, "Well, what do you mean, like, I can't do this?" But then there was another part of me that was, like, I'm curious about this. I want to see if I can do this.
Scott Anthony Barlow 06:26
Yeah. That's amazing. And how do you think about that situation now? You know, years later, where you go back and you think about that, do you feel now that that was a pivotal portion that needed to happen? Or do you feel like that was wrongfully approached by them? How do you think about that now?
Angela Barnard 06:50
You know, I think it's kind of one of those things, it's like the right place right time. I really believe that that was meant for me. And now in my career, you know, as a career coach, and just all the work I've been able to do and how I help people, that job really played a big role in who I am today, even stepping into an environment that was really uncomfortable for me, for so many reasons. And even when I initially walked into that environment, the team wasn't very loving towards me at all, they ended up being some of my best friends, I still talk to these people today. And this was, you know, obviously, years and years ago. But initially, it wasn't the best environment. I was there, one, because I really needed the money. I was, like, eating Bologna, you know, I really need the money. So there was no getting out of this situation. But I'm kind of glad that that was the case, because there was no out for me, it's like, "Angela, you're gonna make this work." And it really kind of taught me around, like people skills, how to manage situations that you're just really uncomfortable in, how to bond with the team. There's just so much I learned from being in that role.
Scott Anthony Barlow 07:52
I love that. And honestly, when I think back, too, I've had a lot of the same experiences were the most rapid progressions of growth, for me, have been those situations where I was the most uncomfortable, and probably the most out of practice, out of sorts, out of skill, whatever, out of place in some ways. And that's a really wonderful experience. So I'm curious, then, what else then from there, from that set of pivotal experiences led up to where you're at today? What happened next?
Angela Barnard 08:24
Oh, okay. So what happened next was, I knew I was really curious about mental health. And I really loved helping the guys work on their personal goals. Like I got so excited about that. So I was like, "Oh, there's something in that." So I ended up applying for my first big girl job, as what I call it, for county mental health. And I was really interested in employment because I thought like, these guys weren't to the level, like, they didn't have goals related to employment. But it got me curious around like, "Woah, what if I could help people reach their career goals, too, and it was in mental health?" So I was really interested in that. So anyways, I get this appointment consultant role for county mental health. And I loved that role, too, because another amazing team that I got to work with. And then while I was in that role, I'm helping people with disabilities find employment, it really started getting my brain to be focused on strengths. Because when you're working with people that have so many different challenges that are unique to each individual, sometimes it was simple things like depression and having a hard time leaving their home. And then other things were a lot more severe around physical things, like, blindness, and then cognitive stuff. There's just such a broad range of people that I'm working with. And I had to learn how to get really creative to find the best situation for them. So it was a lot of assessing what they wanted, what environments would be the best fit for them, given what they're going through, what their strengths are. So I did a lot of assessing in that way. And then it was almost like a game to me. It was really fun. And people would say to me, too, they would give me some of the hardest cases, and they'd be like, "Look, no movement on this person in three years. Good luck, Ang." And I'd be like, "Oh, let's see what we can do."
Scott Anthony Barlow 10:03
Challenge accepted.
Angela Barnard 10:04
Yeah. And it was really fun for me. So I started... I'm a person that noticed these trends. So in that role, I got really good at it because I started seeing what worked. So I would meet with employers, and I would like, network with them. And I'd be super curious. And I'm all about, I tell my clients this too– curiosity... curious kind of energy, is always going to serve you in any situation. So I would show up, and I just be like, "Ah, I'm curious. Now, what is it, you know, what are your guys' greatest challenges? What do you really need help with? Can you show me the work? bla bla bla." Maybe I saw, like, an inefficiency and what they were doing, and I was like, "Oh, I know someone who'd be really good at that, like, could just carve out that piece." So I'd kind of, like, pitch those things to solve a problem. But I always did this... is I always would tell the employer or learn more about them. I was really nosy about, like, talking to people that they're working with, like, "What is he like? What he's, like, doing in his free time?" And I would hear things and I would match it up with something that was related to my client, like it was a commonality with my client. And I would explain that to the employer. And I started noticing this trend of, they were more likely to hire my client if they had things in common with my client. Now that I'm a nerd, and I'm really obsessed with neuroscience, how the brain works, influence all the things, I know, like duh, because we were targeting the subconscious part of their mind that makes most of the decisions 95%, tribe mentality, yada, yada. Now I can see that, but I'm like, wow, I just use it very intentionally. So I'll give you an example. So I remember one time, I had a client who... she really, like, this was her dream– she wanted to work in a grocery store. So she had, you know, a lot of stuff going on. And she always had Pokemon cards. So like, we could get her interviews, but she would like take out Pokemon cards or pictures that she had colored and give it out in the interview. And then the person would be like, "Oh, I don't know if she's gonna be able to handle the cash register, you know, whatever." So I was like, you know, instead of... so for a long time, I would try to be like, "Okay, let's talk about this. Let me check your pockets before you go in." like things like that. But then I realized, I'm like, "Why am I fighting this? Like, she loves this stuff. This is her personality. I need to find a match, like, that makes sense." So I found this... I went to all these grocery stores, I found this manager who would wear like Spongebob watches, he was just a silly dude, he was hilarious. And I was like, you know, "I think he might actually find this humorous and really like her." And I remember, she had a watch like that. So I had made this joke about it, I was like, "Ang, she wears a watch like humor, like, laughing about it." And during the interview, he thought it was hilarious that she did pull out her pictures, but it was like this thing where he...other people in the past would complain about it and be like, "This person can't work here." But he was like, "Ang, she makes me laugh so much. I love having her around." Like it was such a good fit. And that's like an example of, you know, maybe somebody can't relate to that at that level. But guys, I use this, what does not matter, like, if you're a doctor, and you're trying to switch a role, I'm still using these techniques with like, matching, and really helping you be in an environment where you're so excited to be there. And it feels like, these are my homies, like, I belong here, like, I'm all about that. That's where that work started coming in. So after this, I get a promotion, start managing quality improvement programs, I'm obsessed with improvement, start realizing I really love teaching and training. So I kind of gravitate towards that, then I find myself coaching on the side. And then here I am today doing all that work.
Scott Anthony Barlow 13:33
Well, so here's what's really interesting for me, because some of these stories I didn't know about you. And this is, first of all, really fun. And second of all, I'm starting to really understand why you are so good at what I would call consultative sales, or a consulting or partnership type approach, because I've seen that come out. Also, it traces way back to that's what you were forced to do to be successful in those types of early environments. And, you know, to your point about, hey, like going and finding the guy who had the SpongeBob watch. So it lined up with, you know, this person's needs. That principle of let's figure out, like, what is very natural for you as an individual. And then let's go and find the environment in which that that lines up so that you can continue to operate with your best self as an individual, but much more naturally aligned with the people in that environment, with the culture in that environment, with the other things that that, you know, company or organization or whatever actually need. That principle carries over everywhere. You know, you mentioned doctors, I've seen that also with the executives that we work with every day. I've seen that with, you know, people transferring from one industry to another. It's all the same principles. It really doesn't matter whether we're applying it to a situation where, you know, you're working with mental health or situations or whether we're talking about, like, somebody transitioning from, I don't know, a fortune 500 company. So that's so fascinating, first of all. And it leads to another question too. It makes me really curious about when you left that type of role where you helped the person find the manager with the SpongeBob watch and everything, when you decided to leave there, what prompted you to leave? What prompted you to transition? What was going on at the time?
Angela Barnard 15:31
So that was a hard decision for me, because I loved my team so much. And I did love the work that I was doing. But I felt like anyone and, you know, our clients feels, like, you feel this tug, like you were meant for more. Sometimes people think that you have to be completely miserable, right, before you move on into a new role. And that's not always the case. Sometimes...
Scott Anthony Barlow 15:53
Hold on. Why do you think so many of us think that? Because I've definitely felt that, or I don't do anything necessarily until I get to that sort of completely miserable or fed up point. I have absolutely been guilty of that. But I'm curious, in your opinion, why do you think that that happens so frequently? Or why we feel that?
Angela Barnard 16:12
It's because I think that sometimes it has to get that bad until we're willing to do something about it. And we've probably felt it so much earlier that we were meant for more, but we rationalize and say, "Well, my 401k...or my eldest..." hear stuff like that, you're like, you know, it pays okay, and there's a lot of like rationalizing "why" you tried to convince yourself and at some point, you can't keep convincing yourself, it just becomes too painful. And when you get to that point, you're like, "Okay, I'm ready to do something about it." I was fortunate. I feel like to learn that really early on that I could intentionally design my life. And that role taught me, the previous role– the employment consultant, taught me that. Because I realized, I'm like, if I'm advocating so hard for these people to find roles that are a good fit for them, why would I not do that for myself? Why are other people not doing that for themselves? So that was like a big driving thing for me. So when I was in that role, I felt like something was missing. I wanted to step out a little more, out of my comfort zone than at what I was doing and reach like a bigger, I guess, make a bigger impact. And I was really obsessed with improvement, I always happen. So I remember, while I was in that role, a position opened up to manage the quality improvement program in the mental health agency. So that role popped up, and one of my co workers was, like, "Ang, I really think you should do this job." And the rest of my, even my boss, was like, "Ang, I know you're gonna get bored, and I absolutely hate to lose you. But I want you to grow." Like, that's the kind of people, like, it's such a blessing to work with people like that. And they were...and I was like, they're gonna laugh at me. If I interview, like, send this resume out, they're gonna laugh because it said, "10 plus years of experience. Experience doing all this stuff", you know, I had none of that, none of it. So I sent out... because of my coworkers and the encouragement, I applied for the job. I use all the strategies that I use with my clients, you know, the commonalities things, I was super curious about the boss, wanted to see where we aligned with each other. And I ended up having an interview with her. It came down to two people, mind you, guys, I'm like 23 years old, something like that. I'm young. And to manage this county wide program, the rest of the people in the same position as me, I later found out across the state and multiple counties were retirement age. Okay, so huge gap, huge difference, a lot of responsibility for it to get to a young girl. And I knew that sounds, like, still getting in my head about it. But I was, like, you know, I'm gonna try anyway, because I'm all about, like, doing things that make me proud. I wouldn't be proud of myself, I didn't even try. So that's why I always tell my clients, like, "what would make you most proud?" And that was a way I like to say to shift my energy. It's a question that shifts your energy because I was in that state of that low energy of being like, "why would they choose me?" the self doubt, you know, all of that in that story. And then I had to shift my own energies, like, "what would make you most proud of how you showed up?" And I was like, "if I tried." So I ended up having that interview with her, use all my tips. I remember going in very intentional about how I answered, you know, tell me about you. It was all talking about things I knew I had in common with her because I'm still targeting a human mind. It wasn't fake. It was genuine. These are real things, how I really feel because people can...their strategies, I got all kinds of strategies. But the reality is, if you're not being genuine, they ain't gonna work for you, because people can feel your energy. So it was coming from a genuine place. I did all that research on her, I sit down, go through my interview. Oh my gosh guys, the interview...So at some point in time during the interview, I don't even know how we got on this topic, but I started talking about it, so I used to be a broadcast journalist in the army. When I was in the army, when I went through basic training, I had a staph infection. I got infected but went up to my knee. And it got so bad that I ended up in the hospital, in ICU...I literally almost died from it. And it was a very scary time in my life. But long story short, somehow I started talking about this during the interview, Lord, I don't know why. Okay, I'm not sure why.
Scott Anthony Barlow 20:17
Perfect. Best topic ever.
Angela Barnard 20:19
Right. Well, I talked about this. And I remember she said this to me, she said, "you know, my husband had an affection like that, it was so bad." We started talking about that. And I was like, commonalities. Remember? It popped up again. So I finished the interview, did some things that I call, like, the dopamine sparkers, like pointed out things that I knew she loved and wanted her to feel good when I left that interview. I always talk to my clients about that. Your job is to make someone feel good to be around you. If someone doesn't like you, or they don't feel good during the interview, like you're not gonna get the job. Straight up, right? So we got to really be thinking about that kind of energy that you're bringing into the space too, which is not something people often think about, or they don't know how to teach it. And that's something I also love to teach. So anyways, I walked out of the interview, I remember, I read a handwritten note, I gave it to the secretary at the time, who's still one of my friends today. I gave her the note. And I said, "Can you give this to her." you know, like the lady I just interviewed with, and I go sit in the parking lot. And I'm just like, vulnerability, like hangover. And I was like, "Ang, why did you mention that plus that blood...you should've not." You know, I gotta do, like, the whole about it...
Scott Anthony Barlow 21:25
So much TMI.
Angela Barnard 21:27
Too much information. And I was in that parking lot, Scott. She calls me and I pick up the phone. And she's like, "Hey, Ang." and I literally just let her and she said, "I just want to let you know, I want to offer you this job." And I was like, "what?" because mind you, I knew it came down to two people, me and one other girl who had that 14 years of experience, actually manage the quality improvement program in the next county over. So she had experienced, I had zero, right? So then I remember saying, I was like, "Really? I was kind of shocked." And I said, "Can I ask you why?" And she said, "Because I liked you." And I remember thinking, oh, there's something here. Like if I can teach people how to be liked, they can change their whole life. And so beyond these guys, this job truly changed my life. It gave me a lot of confidence. I ended up learning to teach during that job because I got opportunities to teach in front of people. But it also changed my family's life. So a little bit about my background, I came from a childhood, like, I was pretty neglected as a child. So I didn't feel like I had, like, the best of opportunities, you know, as a kid growing up given to me. So it was like this person who, like, believed in me and that meant so much to me that they were going to give me so much responsibility. Well, my sister came from that same childhood, right? My sister was looking for a job. And we needed someone to manage the clinic and medical office of our entire clinic in the county mental health. And I was like, my sister could do this. I know she could do it well. And I was like staying out of it. Because I didn't want to influence my boss's decision because she also managed that department. But I did create my sister's resume and everything, I will say that. Anyways, she applied for the job, and my boss gave her the job. And it completely changed her life, her family's life, got her dream home. She's killing it now in life. And I really believe that it started there. But, you know where it really started with? It started with me working past my fear. Because what if I would have never tried? You know, what if I would have listened to all of the BS about how you're not experienced, you don't have that extreme...
Scott Anthony Barlow 23:33
You don't have the qualifications.
Angela Barnard 23:36
Then where would I be? Where would my sister be? You know, so it's like, I love to give that story for those who think because I have had a lot of clients over the years who say, like, "But I don't have any experience in that field. And I'm making a complete transition." And I'm like, "doesn't matter" like, one of my favorite things to do is to boil your mind around what you believe is possible for you, like, to make that thing that you think couldn't happen for you, happen for you. Like I'm all about that.
Scott Anthony Barlow 24:03
That is such a fun story. Partially because it's really amazing what you find when you start to break down how some events happen to allow people to be successful in the things that they want to be successful. So for example, you, in this particular case, you had not just one, but a number of events that had to take place that all built upon one another. And, you know, there's a really famous speech that Steve Jobs gave at one point where he talks about, "it's easy to connect the dots looking backwards and it's much much harder to see that in reverse where you're trying to look forward and anticipate the future." And I think the thing that gets so overlooked and underrated is just how much those types of events like you're describing, hey, you know, looking past the fear and saying, "Hey, what could be possible here for me? If I look past it and, you know, leverage this encouragement and apply anyways and then go and then show up and have the conversation and all the things, simply by moving past the fear temporarily to be able to show up that leads to the next thing, which leads to the next thing, which leads to the next thing, which now, years later, creates a whole, literally, a whole different life for you and the people around you." So I think that's so fun for so many reasons. And as, you know, I'm more than a little bit of a nerd when it comes to being able to break down, you know, how people become successful in what they want to over time. But I really appreciate you sharing that story. And I also want to not overlook a couple of things that you said, I'd love to go back for just a moment here. And you mentioned these commonalities and this idea of getting other people and teaching other people to be liked, or getting people to like you. And I think that one of the things that you did really well to be able to establish those commonalities, which then, if we think about, like, why those are so powerful, and how those lead to like, if we find commonalities, or if we build rapport, that leads to familiarity. And then if we have familiarity, the way that our brains work, that leads to trust, even though we don't know necessarily why we're trusting someone else, which then leads to, like, or at least is the beginning of that. So I think you did that really, really well, by being vulnerable in really specific ways. Now, here's the interesting thing I think that is so fascinating and terrible about vulnerability. And I'm curious your opinion on this. But to be vulnerable, like that takes courage because it requires putting yourself out there. And that's, I think, why, you know, now we talk about things like vulnerability hangovers and things like that, like, how are somebody going to perceive, like, how will they perceive, like, what I just said? Because it requires being courageous to put yourself out there in the first place. By definition, that requires some amount of moving past your fear and courage to even get to that point. And definitely, you know, the feelings afterwards, the wondering about how that's going to actually work out is part of that in some ways, too. So here's my question to you, for someone else who wants to take small steps in order to put themselves out there more, in one way or another, what advice would you give them as they're going into those interactions, those moments? Whether it's an, you know, casual conversation, whether it is a job interview for something that you feel semi under qualified for, what advice would you give them to get started in doing that more?
Angela Barnard 27:50
Okay, so first, I want to acknowledge that, you're gonna feel uncomfortable, that's part of the deal. If you're not feeling uncomfortable, I would say you're not playing big enough in life. I always feel uncomfortable. So first off, I want you to acknowledge that that is normal. And that means you're going after something that you care about. So that's a good sign. So first, acknowledge yourself for that. The second thing I would say is coach yourself, coach yourself around it. That's what I did. That's how I got to where I am now, is I noticed those feelings. And then just like the question we said earlier, "what would make you proud of how you showed up?" It's like, if I tried, right? But then even when you're in those feelings, or you're feeling that nervousness around something, you get to decide, like, where you direct that energy. So, you know, you may have heard this, like ,excitement and nervousness is the same, kind of, like, feeling in the body. So sometimes even reframing it for yourself, like, I'm excited about this opportunity. Or I always, like, to use the words "I'm curious", you know, I'm really curious to learn more about it and just say it over and over, things like that. Because this is the other thing you got to think about is, when you're feeling nervous about something that you want to go after, this is energy, right? So you may be calling it nervousness or fear, because you're thinking a certain way, and that's causing you to feel that way. But this is just energy. So that's all it is. Don't make drama about it. It's just energy. How do you shift that energy? So words have energy. So even just saying, when you sit down, like, I suggest when you sit down for an interview, coming from a place of curiosity, saying, "I'm curious to learn more about this." like somehow even that shifts your energy. And the other thing I say too is being aware of, like, what's happening in your body, like if you feel like you're so nervous, that you can't manage your mind, then you manage your body because your body and your mind are talking to each other. So just even like opening up your body, you know, like you are acting like you are a confident person. And within two minutes, now we're releasing different hormones in our body that cause us to feel a different, you know, a different way. So there's little strategies that I suggest that you can do in those situations, but don't let that fear stop you. It's almost like a thing that you can celebrate and you know how to work through it, you can coach yourself through it, there's things you can do.
Scott Anthony Barlow 30:10
I think that that is such a wonderful point. And I will say that for myself, quite honestly, it took many years before I got to be the point where I could confidently or successfully coach myself through it. I had to rely on other people coaching me for a very long time before I started to build a lot of those habits to where I felt like I could do that well. So that's one thing I would add. If you don't feel like you are at the point where you can coach yourself on that, or you're really struggling with that, then don't hesitate to leverage other people, leverage, you know, leverage coworkers, leverage friends, obviously, we have an entire team of coaches that do this for a living, you know, leverage us, but find that help in so many different ways. And start with the little things like you're talking about, because what I hear you saying is that the little things matter, especially when you're coaching yourself, you know, changing your posture, then actually creates different chemical interactions within your body. And without going into the science, which I love, but might take four hours here, you know, over a period of several minutes really does actually change how you feel, which is craziness, right? Or it feels like it. So I love that point so much. And, you know, the other thing I wanted to ask you about, when you think about someone who's in this space, you've made a number of career changes along the way. But when you go back to where someone's at, where they're thinking about making a change, where they know that they want more, as you pointed out, where they know that they're meant for more, and they want to do something that is more meaningful to them in one way or another, what advice would you give that person in that place? Where they're either just getting started, or just thinking about beginning to take meaningful steps in moving forward there for change.
Angela Barnard 32:00
I would say to act like the person you want to be. And in those moments, even if you feel like, "I don't know how this would be possible for me" or doubting yourself in any way, how would the person you want to be like at? What would they believe in that situation? That's something that has always helped me to move past that fear. And if you're not really sure what they would do, I want you to think about someone that you admire and put them in the situation that you're in, what would they say? How would they act? Because usually those people that you admire their habits, like their thought patterns, the stories they tell themselves, the habits that they have in their life, that's kind of like the recipe for their success. That's how they got there. So now it's just about you, like, bringing it, using that recipe, right, to get to where you want to be.
Scott Anthony Barlow 32:48
That is so cool. I love that. I've leveraged that many, many times over the years. And yeah, one other thing, too, that's really helped me in addition to thinking about, like, who is it that I want to be? Or what would that person do? I often think about my kids, too. I do a lot of things for my kids, bigger things, hard things, because of that motivates me. So I think about like, what would a great parent do in this case? Or what would I want my kids to think about me if I did this or not do this or any number of other things? So putting other people into the picture, too, if that doesn't work for you to think about, you know, who is the person that I want to become? Those are all really, really wonderful tips. I love that you've made this so functional, because these are the things that cause you to be able to do the hard things, small or large, that matter. So I really, really appreciate it. And I want to say thanks, too, for sharing quite a bit about your story. But sharing some of those hard parts along the way too. Because this isn't all, you know, usually does not go perfectly. Whether it's a career change, whether it is any type of change, any type of meaningful change in your life never goes perfectly, as it turns out.
Angela Barnard 34:03
Yeah, I mean, I've definitely had my fair share of my rejections along the way, like throughout my journey, and I feel like it's all about what you want to make something mean. You know, when I'm working with clients, you know, they're putting themselves out there, they're playing big in life. And when you're playing in big, you're going to have those times where you thought you feel like you're falling down or you know, this didn't work out for you, but you're gonna get back up and we're gonna be there to support you through the entire thing, right? But when that stuff happens, you get to decide what it means to you. Are you going to make it mean that you suck? Are you going to make it mean that there's something better coming for you that's out there waiting? And the reason why this didn't work out for you is because something better is going to happen, right? You just gotta be patient through it. And when we, like, work through that stuff, I swear every time, anyone I've worked with that's ever been rejected about anything, I don't even care anymore because I know that like it's just because something better is coming. And I see that pattern happens every time as long as we can keep that energy high, I mean, really pay attention to the stories we're making up. And if they're serving us or not, because career transition stuff, this is hard work, I mean, must be real. I mean, there's lots of ups and downs. And this is why it's so helpful to have someone that can support you through that journey. And like I said earlier, Scott about you know, acting like the person that you want to be, before we go, I just gotta give you this advice, like, if you're listening, that you gotta invest in yourself. And I know that that's scary. And sometimes with this stuff, you're like, "Oh, the money will be worth it, or whatever." And I just want to say, if you're thinking about that, maybe you're thinking about investing in coaching, you know that you want to leave the role that you're in, you want a better life, you know you were meant for more, what I'm saying is, that means, you gotta invest in yourself, because the person that you want to be, the one that you actually want to be like, the one that has faith and trust that things will work out for them, they would invest in themselves, that will be a part of their recipe. So in order for you to get anywhere, you're gonna need to do that. And we recognize that it's uncomfortable. Everyone here, like on the team, we've spent money, too, like, I got here today, I've spent a lot of money. I'm like my own self and my own journey, because I am committed to living my best life, I will do whatever it takes, because no amount of money, truthfully, is worth me not enjoying my life. I don't want to be the person on my deathbed that wishes that I would have lived life differently. And what if I could have lived my very best life for whatever amount of money, like, hands down, I give you that money any day to know that I live my best life.
Scott Anthony Barlow 36:40
Love that advice. I personally do that exact same thing where I am, actually both Alyssa and I, when we do our budgets, we budget 10% for self investment, and that's a combination of, yeah, I mean, I think it's such a great strategy to treat it like any other investment, like 20% of our income goes into other types of investments, and 10% of our income goes into self investment, which ranges from self development all the way to health for us. So I think that's such a great point. I don't think we've ever talked about that on the podcast either, to be quite honest. So I really appreciate you bringing it up. Ang, this has been so fun. And thank you again for coming on.
Angela Barnard 37:26
Thank you so much. It's been a blast.
Scott Anthony Barlow 37:33
Many of the stories that you've heard on the podcast are from listeners that have decided they wanted to take action, and taking the first step of having a conversation with our team to try and figure out how we can help. And if you want to implement what you have heard, and you want to completely change your life and your career, then let's figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest, just open your phone right now and open your email app. And I'm going to give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And then when you do that, I'll introduce you to the right person on our team. And you can have a conversation with us, we'll try and understand your goals and what you want to accomplish in your career no matter where you're at. And we can figure out the very best way that we can help you and your situation. So open up right now and send me an email with 'Conversation' in the subject line; scott@happentoyourcareer.com.
Scott Anthony Barlow 38:37
Hey, I hope you loved this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And if this has been helpful, then please share this podcast with your friends, with your family, with your co-workers that badly need it. Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.
Speaker 3 38:56
None of those things that I was skilled in, like, I wanted to continue. Like, I don't want to write literature reviews anymore. I don't want to do that kind of research work. So the things that I was, you know, good at, I didn't want to continue. And so I felt like I was almost starting from nothing.
Scott Anthony Barlow 39:16
All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.
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